Unacceptable QF Communication, Mismanagement and Question on Customer Rights (QF1 23.12)

42 replies

Clancy

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 31 Jan 2016

Total posts 79

Seriously, please... Al Ain is a largish city of 650k people on the Oman border. The airport caters for some 4000pax/week flying mostly to India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. It would be like landing at Alice Springs on a long weekend after a big night out...no one home, least not serious ground support. Everyone is alive but a little creased and suffering a first world problem, not somewhere on time. Breath-in and breath-out. Ahhhh, so much better now... :)

Now that I have said this I bet that I end up somewhere similar in Jan on the way to London on QF1...!!!

Peterking

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 05 May 2017

Total posts 7

After being in numerous similar situations (stuck in LA after A380 grounding, stuck in HK due to typhoon, diverted to Wuhan due to weather in Shanghai and spending 7 hours on the plane before being sent to a hotel) i sympathise with your situation. Unfortunately as i discovered on a diverted Thai Airways flight that there is not a lot the airline can actually do. They are often merely conveying the vague information that they have received themselves. I suspect that this is part of the reason why Qantas is leaving Dubai. The airport is so far over capacity that any incident causes chaos. I am much happier that they are returning to Singapore. Far less conjestion and less issues.

Doubleplatinum Banned

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer Platinum

Member since 07 Feb 2013

Total posts 431

"basically totally ruined Christmas" is drawing a very long bow, and the 10+ hours without food myth has been debunked by qantas.

Doubleplatinum Banned

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer Platinum

Member since 07 Feb 2013

Total posts 431

Thanks a lot for all your answers. I do understand that weather cannot be predicted and I mentioned it is not QF's fault that they had to divert. However, all that happened from there onwards was a total mess and I expect QF to do much, much better than that.

My wife (still en route) told me that there was a person with Parkinson, children, elderly, etc.

IMO, what could have been done in such "crisis situation":

1) PAX kept on plane for 9h (without food) and then let off aircraft to wait in a small departure area for another 3h. Why weren't they let off aircraft earlier? Also as Dredgy mentioned they could have organised some pizzas, or any sort of food (there must have been some spare lunches on board) for the ones who needed it most. Doesn't take too much effort.

2) QF could have sent at least update emails to relatives / contact details linked to that booking reference, OR announce it on twitter "QF1, departed 23.12.2017 from SYD diverted due to fog in DXB- expect long delay" to at least inform the general public so people would get a clue on what is the situation. QF was totally passive and silent.

3) A new crew came from DXB (2h drive, could have brought food?!) - and they knew the onward flight DXB-LHR was cancelled. They only told PAX once they arrived in DXB 10h later. I knew that the onward flight was cancelled bc I called QF and they told me. At that point my wife did not know and was informed only hours later. Why not tell PAX straight away, tell em to get comfy and tell that QF doesn't have a landing slot into DXB before 5pm that day? It's better to tell the truth upfront so at least PAX know what is going on and can adapt for a long wait.

4) They landed at 1am int AAN - most connecting flights to EU/UK with EK leave before 4pm - QF had 14h to manage this: One option would have been to offload PAX, clear immigration, organise a few coaches to drive PAX to DXB for onward connections - sure it is challenging but it could have been done at least with Pax who would need it the most (fans with small children, elderly, etc)

5) Lastly there are charter airlines (e.g. HiFly.aero) which could have picked up PAX at AAN and fly them to London.

I understand that such situation is challenging but imagine you would be stuck with pregnant wife and 2 kids in a plane for 9h post a 14h flight and crew telling you nothing.
To top it off, once arrived into DXB, post a 30h "flight from hell" pax had to wait over an hour for their luggage, and then they were told that luggage is forwarded to their destinations. Come on, seriously? Why couldn't a QF representative / crew member simply inform PAX of this?

It just makes me angry that no one wants to take responsibility, QF sweeps it under the carpet, pretending nothing happened, and plays fools with PAX in unexpected situations like these.
BTW there were many angry pax at LHR complaining how the cancelled QF10 flight was managed (no information, pax needed line up for hours, clueless ground staff) so this definitely does not seem to be an exception here.


I wonder if you have experienced a similar unexpected "crisis situation" with another airline and if that airline truly did all within their possibilities to managed it?

I cannot believe that QF will get away with this! I am not paying a thousands or $ for a J ticket for pax to be treated like this. As compensation I would expect at least: 1) a sincere apology sent via email and 2) some "travel voucher" (even if it is a symbolic $100) for the mess and harm they caused. But honestly, not even a refund would do justice! What rights do passengers have in such situation? I know in EU you get compensated €€ for delayed flights. I just found "Airline Customer Advocate" on this forum - would they be able to help?


How does having kids on board deserve special treatment? I love how people think that breeding is such a huge achievement.

Johnny9

Member since 05 Aug 2017

Total posts 55

People, Just as a fact: on that day 2 other aircrafts were diverted to AAN: An Air France B773 (AF662) and a Kenya Air B788 (KQ310).


In the Crown Plaza DXB on Xmas eve my wife met some pax from the affected AF flight: well guess what: AF organised busses from Dubai to pick up all Pax (incl luggage). AF pax had to remain in plane for “only” 2.5h before brought safely to Dubai Hotel. AF made clear that pax will have to stay overnight and be put on flights on 25.12 - just a reminder: QF pax had to wait for 9h on the plane, then let off, food was then available FOR PURCHASE (not provided as QF claims) and 5h later they flew to DXB where only then and there pax received news that they would have to stay overnight in Dubai. Why couldn’t QF notify pax earlier? Clearly the lady on QF hotline knew this already hours before, as she told me.

Although resources are understandingly extremely limited at AAN for such emergency, generally speaking QF knew long time before QF1 was actually diverted to AAN that there would be possible trouble as planes were circling around DXB for hours before QF1s actual landing. How come AF can manage and QF not??


It’s pointless to argue now about the “could haves & should haves” - please let let it be.

Bottom line it comes down to 3 things:


1) resources: how many resources is an airline willing to allocate to troubleshoot unexpected situations? QF did in this case (for QF1 and QF2, 9 and 10) a horrible job, and clearly prioritises “no expenses & no responsibilities” before “customer first / help” (just read recent Qantas Twitter replies about HOW MANY passengers are frustrated with QF’s incompetency - waiting for 5h at LHR no info whatsoever from ground staff)


2) communication: QF should have tweeted or informed the public in some other way, in a PROACTIVE and TIMELY fashion that flight was diverted and long delays are to be expected. I think people would have still been angry but at least could adjust their expectations & hopes that they will miss Xmas (it’s called “expectation management” btw qf); and


3) Apologetic: it would go a long way to send at least an automated email to affected pax with something like: “we sincerely apologise for the experienced delay / flight cancellation, but unfortunately it was outside of our control. We would love to greet you on board soon!”


In summary Qantas has failed completely in managing this situation and showing decency. Proactive communication and an apology would have cost QF 0 cents but would have helped tons. IMO QF is too arrogant to take responsibility, communicate clearly and show customers respect. If this would happen with some ultra low cost carrier I would not complain but I really find it unacceptable from an airline which charges a premium.


I and approx 1000+ other pax simply feel let down by Qantas. At least this has been mentioned on the news. Lets hope QF (and the airline industry) learns from this fiasco and we don't ever have to see a person with Parkinson's disease being trapped on a plane for 23hrs+

Last editedby Johnny9 at Dec 27, 2017, 08:28 AM.

aniljak

Member since 15 Sep 2012

Total posts 99

There are two crews on an a380! One lot surely would have been resting. Why could they have not let dubai passengers off and continued on to London? Thats why planes have rest areas - so crews can rest!

aniljak

Member since 15 Sep 2012

Total posts 99

Also couldnt the new crew taking over in Dubai come by road and fly plane on to London

Doubleplatinum Banned

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer Platinum

Member since 07 Feb 2013

Total posts 431

People, Just as a fact: on that day 2 other aircrafts were diverted to AAN: An Air France B773 (AF662) and a Kenya Air B788 (KQ310).


In the Crown Plaza DXB on Xmas eve my wife met some pax from the affected AF flight: well guess what: AF organised busses from Dubai to pick up all Pax (incl luggage). AF pax had to remain in plane for “only” 2.5h before brought safely to Dubai Hotel. AF made clear that pax will have to stay overnight and be put on flights on 25.12 - just a reminder: QF pax had to wait for 9h on the plane, then let off, food was then available FOR PURCHASE (not provided as QF claims) and 5h later they flew to DXB where only then and there pax received news that they would have to stay overnight in Dubai. Why couldn’t QF notify pax earlier? Clearly the lady on QF hotline knew this already hours before, as she told me.

Although resources are understandingly extremely limited at AAN for such emergency, generally speaking QF knew long time before QF1 was actually diverted to AAN that there would be possible trouble as planes were circling around DXB for hours before QF1s actual landing. How come AF can manage and QF not??


It’s pointless to argue now about the “could haves & should haves” - please let let it be.

Bottom line it comes down to 3 things:


1) resources: how many resources is an airline willing to allocate to troubleshoot unexpected situations? QF did in this case (for QF1 and QF2, 9 and 10) a horrible job, and clearly prioritises “no expenses & no responsibilities” before “customer first / help” (just read recent Qantas Twitter replies about HOW MANY passengers are frustrated with QF’s incompetency - waiting for 5h at LHR no info whatsoever from ground staff)


2) communication: QF should have tweeted or informed the public in some other way, in a PROACTIVE and TIMELY fashion that flight was diverted and long delays are to be expected. I think people would have still been angry but at least could adjust their expectations & hopes that they will miss Xmas (it’s called “expectation management” btw qf); and


3) Apologetic: it would go a long way to send at least an automated email to affected pax with something like: “we sincerely apologise for the experienced delay / flight cancellation, but unfortunately it was outside of our control. We would love to greet you on board soon!”


In summary Qantas has failed completely in managing this situation and showing decency. Proactive communication and an apology would have cost QF 0 cents but would have helped tons. IMO QF is too arrogant to take responsibility, communicate clearly and show customers respect. If this would happen with some ultra low cost carrier I would not complain but I really find it unacceptable from an airline which charges a premium.


I and approx 1000+ other pax simply feel let down by Qantas. At least this has been mentioned on the news. Lets hope QF (and the airline industry) learns from this fiasco and we don't ever have to see a person with Parkinson's disease being trapped on a plane for 23hrs+

Last edited by Johnny9 at Dec 27, 2017, 08.28 AM.

Yeah because Qantas could have magically known that a patient with parkinsons was on board? If someone with this disease cant handle a delay they shouldn't be flying full stop, just like parents who think they deserve special treatment because they have kids.

Gazza129

Member since 11 Nov 2017

Total posts 13

I feel for the PAX after being stuck on A VA flight last month from LAX to MEL with virtually inedible food for 15 hours due to (well discussed) catering issues at LAX. We weren't told about the problem til locked in and pushed back.

Your blood boils as the time goes on and on and on......

At least we were compensated.
It seems it's hats off to the French this time.................

Himeno

Member since 12 Dec 2012

Total posts 295

There are two crews on an a380! One lot surely would have been resting. Why could they have not let dubai passengers off and continued on to London? Thats why planes have rest areas - so crews can rest!

There are not 2 crews on an A380. They are all 1 crew with some given time off throughout the flight at different times as anyone else in another line of work gets. The crew "rest" is no different to a retail worker getting their lunch break. They are still on the clock during their "rest" and they still have a limited amount of hours they can work in one duty period. Getting a few hours "rest" in a private area of the aircraft does not restart their duty period.


This weather issue also had QF aircraft divert to DWC and BAH. They had QF1, QF2 and QF9 divert to 3 different airports unplanned at around the same time. They also had to deal with a DXB-LHR-DXB rotation cancelled.
They had 3 aircraft out of position and around 2000 passengers to sort things out for.
There were people in DXB, ANN and BAH going to LHR, or connecting to other ports in Europe, people in DXB and DWC going to MEL and SYD and people in LHR going to DXB and onwards. There were crew in 3 offline ports running out of hours.
Staff at the SYD QF ops center had to come up with 5 different plans to deal with this situation and then filter those plans out to front line staff.
Front line passenger facing staff are normally the last to find out about changes.
Frequent flyers often find out about problems and changes before the airport staff do.

Dan22

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 07 Aug 2013

Total posts 168

The only international services al ain gets seems to be air India express and some other regional carriers - I doubt their ability to handle an a380 hence why no one could be offloaded and processed through immigration - I doubt customs would even be open if it landed at 1am.. Would they even have gates/stairs for an a380? I wonder where Emirates diverts there a380s. Was wondering why QF would divert to Al ain. They could have done Abu Dhabi or Doha even?. Had similar situation with Cubana diverting to regional airport in Mexico due to MEX intl airport closed for fog. Sat on plane for 4 hours - compensation? Haha yeah right. Food - forget it - wouldn’t want to eat it anyway there’s a reason they were in top 6 worst airlines!

Dan22

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 07 Aug 2013

Total posts 168

If you want compo read your travel insurance policy about flight delays..

Rod H

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

Member since 06 Mar 2015

Total posts 275

All of this could have been prevented had a few things been in place.

1. DXB needs a Cat111B Instrument landing system.( Not sure it doesn't ) This enables suitably equipped and crew trained aircraft to land as long as the visibility is 75 metres or more.
2. The aircraft has to have several functioning auto pilots
3. The crew have to be trained in the flight simulator every 12 months to keep current ( might be 6 ).
I'm fairly sure all A380's have the necessary equipment fitted.
The big problem is the ground equipment needs to be suitable for this and not too many airports have this expensive system fitted.. At some airports where the visibility is very often bad they do go to the expense of setting it up ( eg. New Delhi .)
Also most Airlines won't pay for the very expensive cost of keeping their pilots validated for this type of low visibility landing except the few who fly constantly to low visibility airports.
It all boils down to $'s , it's far cheaper to have a few diversion every year than to keep a highly sophisticated system and crew trained pilots operational.
This is a slight thread drift but it does show that at these very busy airports there does need to be a better system that would aleviate these types of diversions.

lobby

Member since 26 Feb 2017

Total posts 8

People, Just as a fact: on that day 2 other aircrafts were diverted to AAN: An Air France B773 (AF662) and a Kenya Air B788 (KQ310).


In the Crown Plaza DXB on Xmas eve my wife met some pax from the affected AF flight: well guess what: AF organised busses from Dubai to pick up all Pax (incl luggage). AF pax had to remain in plane for “only” 2.5h before brought safely to Dubai Hotel. AF made clear that pax will have to stay overnight and be put on flights on 25.12 - just a reminder: QF pax had to wait for 9h on the plane, then let off, food was then available FOR PURCHASE (not provided as QF claims) and 5h later they flew to DXB where only then and there pax received news that they would have to stay overnight in Dubai. Why couldn’t QF notify pax earlier? Clearly the lady on QF hotline knew this already hours before, as she told me.

Although resources are understandingly extremely limited at AAN for such emergency, generally speaking QF knew long time before QF1 was actually diverted to AAN that there would be possible trouble as planes were circling around DXB for hours before QF1s actual landing. How come AF can manage and QF not??


It’s pointless to argue now about the “could haves & should haves” - please let let it be.

Bottom line it comes down to 3 things:


1) resources: how many resources is an airline willing to allocate to troubleshoot unexpected situations? QF did in this case (for QF1 and QF2, 9 and 10) a horrible job, and clearly prioritises “no expenses & no responsibilities” before “customer first / help” (just read recent Qantas Twitter replies about HOW MANY passengers are frustrated with QF’s incompetency - waiting for 5h at LHR no info whatsoever from ground staff)


2) communication: QF should have tweeted or informed the public in some other way, in a PROACTIVE and TIMELY fashion that flight was diverted and long delays are to be expected. I think people would have still been angry but at least could adjust their expectations & hopes that they will miss Xmas (it’s called “expectation management” btw qf); and


3) Apologetic: it would go a long way to send at least an automated email to affected pax with something like: “we sincerely apologise for the experienced delay / flight cancellation, but unfortunately it was outside of our control. We would love to greet you on board soon!”


In summary Qantas has failed completely in managing this situation and showing decency. Proactive communication and an apology would have cost QF 0 cents but would have helped tons. IMO QF is too arrogant to take responsibility, communicate clearly and show customers respect. If this would happen with some ultra low cost carrier I would not complain but I really find it unacceptable from an airline which charges a premium.


I and approx 1000+ other pax simply feel let down by Qantas. At least this has been mentioned on the news. Lets hope QF (and the airline industry) learns from this fiasco and we don't ever have to see a person with Parkinson's disease being trapped on a plane for 23hrs+

Last edited by Johnny9 at Dec 27, 2017, 08.28 AM.


Yeah because Qantas could have magically known that a patient with parkinsons was on board? If someone with this disease cant handle a delay they shouldn't be flying full stop, just like parents who think they deserve special treatment because they have kids.

I have kids and don't feel I deserve special treatment, but would love for you to sit next to my three year old when she is Hangry!

Last editedby lobby at Dec 29, 2017, 03:04 PM.

hutch

Member since 07 Oct 2012

Total posts 772

Interesting thread and undoubtedly there is room for improvement when it comes to Qantas communicating with its customers (generally, I find this to be where QF has the greatest issue). I've been stuck on a plane on the ground for a few hours and it is pretty horrible...


I would note, as Himeno has noted, that QF had flights diverted to Bahrain, Dubai World Central and Al Ain on the same day. That would cause a lot of disruption, at a time of the year when airlines are running at pretty high capacity. Combined with the many Emirates flights diverted. Which I assume that meant it would have meant EK was busy with their own issues.

A couple of other comments. The OP has made a comparison between Air France and Qantas dealing with this. However, I don't think this is a 'like for like' comparison. Qantas uses Dubai as a stopover point for Europe flights, Air France terminates at Dubai (at least to my knowledge). So when Air France say "AF made clear that pax will have to stay overnight and be put on flights on 25.12", those would have been passengers already in Dubai planning to fly to Paris. As for the passengers on the plane, they just need to get them to Dubai (and a smaller number of passengers). Qantas scenario would be how to do we get this passengers to London/Europe, whilst dealing with 2 other diversions.

Whilst it does not always happen, issues can be exemplified when experienced away from the main airport where airlines have facilities and staff. Unfortunately, this just sounds like the perfect storm of foreign diverted port, other diversions and then an aircraft going tech. Doesn't excuse poor communication though.

You would need around 9 coaches to transfer passengers/crew. If this was Qantas/Emirates only flight diverted, then that is fair enough. But given the time and overall picture, I think this is harder to organise than you think.

Finally, charter flights are not organised in few hours and again, Christmas is already a busy time for them.


Hi Guest, join in the discussion on Unacceptable QF Communication, Mismanagement and Question on Customer Rights (QF1 23.12)

Attach Files