Australia-Singapore travel could restart under 'green lane' plan

There are a number of current cases in Perth quarantine who tested negative on arrival from other countries and have since tested positive. On arrrival quarantine is succeeding in keeping Covid19 out of the community in WA.

adi the big issue is false negatives. These tests even with high reliability even at 99% still can give a false negative an on such a low infection rate in the population (around 1%) the chance of infected people getting through is quite high. The other issue is whether presence of antibodies itself a reliable indicator. The issue, therefore, is whether any other country will accept that test and let them back without quarantine

I can imagine it changing sooner than it seems. Singapore is geographically smaller than Australia so it's easier to trace and monitor. They've reduced daily average count from just over 1000 two weeks ago to just under 500 last week daily. At that rate they'll be down to Australia numbers by the end of June unless there is another cluster that comes up like what they had causing this spike. Hong Kong could also end up on the list due to their case numbers as well.

"unless there is another cluster that comes up like what they had causing this spike"

But that's the issue though. Pretty sure the health authorities would want to be confident they have a handle on how to effectively and quickly deal with clusters.

Hong Kong is likely to have other issues to deal with over the next little while unfortunately.

Clusters will occur, get over it and stop being scared.

Since the dawn of time, humans have caught various viruses, we can build immunity and as long as 'at risk' people take care, the rest of us can travel with few limitations.

Deaths through depression and mental health concerns, not to mention severe economic troubles, are thousands of times worse than a virus.

Correct Sydini, this is all about control, it should not be about elimination which would be so severe on the economies of the world and the mental health of us all, that we need to have simple precautions and checks but move ahead and travel as we wish.

Grannular,

All but a small handful of these daily announced cases are within the migrant worker community here in Singapore, who are all quarantined in their dormitory facilities, or other locations, away from the general population. Last week saw one day of zero cases, and in most recent days the reported cases in the general community were less than 5.

At the moment, virtually nothing is open island wide aside from, for example, grocery stores, medical centres, pharmacies and hairdressing salons. Some restaurants and hawker centres stalls are open, but only for delivery. The majority of hotels have been commandeered for occupation by essential workers, and unwell migrant workers.

Hotel restaurants are open for room service only. Masks must be worn at all times when you are outside your residence, and you are unable to visit anyone who is not a member of your household. The financial district is deserted on the basis that everyone must work from home. Orchard Road is a ghost town.

Some of these restrictions are being lifted tomorrow, but, for expats, the difference to today will not be discernible. Further easing, allowing the opening of some restaurants, and small gatherings, are slated for later this month.

My very strong advice is that, should this “green lane” travel commence, intending business travellers to Singapore should, prior to committing to the trip, gain a total understanding of the rules that will apply to them whilst on the ground here, and strictly adhere to them.

As an example, a small group of expats, who dared to sit together in a public place a few weeks ago, are now going through the court system, after the photo of them, taken by a “concerned Singaporean”, and a story, appeared on the front page of the Straits Times. I expect that, at a minimum, they will be heftily fined. At worst, they may be jailed. I also expect that they will have their employment passes cancelled, and be required to return home. Yes, they broke the rules, but does the punishment fit the crime?

In contrast, Singaporeans in my area (Katong) are flagrantly flouting the laws by grocery shopping in family groups, eating in at hawker centres, wearing masks only partially, and visiting other households (very obvious in my condo complex) seemingly with impunity. And, I can't imagine that all the cars on the road are for essential travel - the busiest “vehicle” day I've seen in the past few weeks was Mother's day. Hmmmmm!

But, that said, it's their country!

Exactly. All this talk about Singapore. We should be looking at HK, Taiwan (the worlds best COVID response arguably) and Japan well before Singapore who are the worst Corona hit country in all of SEA!

PERflyer,

See my post above. The overwhelming majority of cases here in Singapore are and always have been in the now quarantined migrant worker population, not the general population.

I'm no Singapore Government fanboy (also see my post), but the perception that the disease is rife here within the general community is simply incorrect.

Sorry I don't care if they are “migrant” population or the Singapore Chinese population. It is bad enough the conditions the “migrant population” are in in the first place. (Which I'll refrain from mentioning here) I'm not looking what ethnic groups are with the virus in a particular country and it does not excuse the fact SG is the most a Corona riddled country in SEA.

However I enjoy Singapore and can not wait to go back once it is under control. But this whole “it's only the migrant population” thing has got to stop. They are large cases in Singapore full stop.

My point still stands countries with a much better handle on Corona like Taiwan , Japan , HK we should be looking at first after the NZ bubble.

The migrant worker population is counted separately in government data because that group resides in purpose-built dormitories and since the lockdown does not mix with the broader community. They are under a separate quarantine arrangement. Presumably, any green lane arrangement with Australia would not apply to them, but only to the rest of the Singaporean population, where transmission has already been very low (two days of zero cases in the past week), and where effective lockdown measures will continue to apply for at least a few weeks.

I understand your point. But the data the world sees is total cases per country etc. Not a broken down version unless we specifically look for it. You could argue lots of countries (Including Australia) have their active cases locked away just in hotels instead of dormitories.

Thankfully the bilateral negotiations for the green lane arrangement will mean that governments will be looking precisely at these sorts of details, as well as shared standards around testing, contact tracing, ability to quickly shut down travel, etc.

And no, it is not merely active cases in the migrant worker population in Singapore that are being quarantined - the entire workforce of migrant workers is being quarantined from the main population and is being progressively tested. It would imagine it would be unsettling if you were a healthy migrant worker, not being able to get away from dense conditions where there is a high infection rate - but it also means that there is no possibility of those migrant workers coming into contact with the broader Singaporean population, to which this green lane arrangement would apply.

Thanks for the info let's hope we can get this industry back in any capacity ASAP. Tough gig being a migrant worker but that's for another forum!

"migrant population" is the wrong term...

Or vietnam

Unfortunately it is not that easy with the incubation period, silent spreaders and some reliability doubts of the testing in the first place. The aim should be to control the virus not eliminate it.

adi you still haven addressed my point below the big issue is false negatives. These tests even with high reliability even at 99% still can give a false negative and on such a low infection rate in the population (around 1%) the chance of infected people getting through is quite high. The other issue is whether the presence of antibodies is itself a reliable indicator (how long they take to appear etc). The issue, therefore, is whether any other country will accept that test and let them back without quarantine. Given Australia's experience with false negatives (see below) I doubt it. Also I am not sure how travel firms have the epidemiological experience to call for such things, or be cited as being reliable.

I read it on thesun .co .uk in the /travel/ section. There are several countries that are already using testing or going to introduce it in June to avoid 14-day quarantines: Austria, Iceland (June 15), Spain (June 21 no quarantine), Italy (June 3 no quarantine), Greece. The proposal does not only come from travel firms. Other groups of experts that look into also include scientists and aviation experts. (I guess it is better than an advice from a former IT manager). Australia could at least open travel corridors between a few countries in EU that have lower number of cases.

Please do not offend people just because you have a different opinion. I hope we are all here to help each other.