Lufthansa, Swiss see more Aussie flyers via Singapore, Hong Kong

Not happening as long as:

1. LH Group is in *A.

2. Alliance global network op model is in vogue.

3. For such long flights(e.g. EU-Australia), cheaper for partner to do part of the lifting than to do it all by yourself.

If U recall, LH abandoned its own ops to SYD roughly around the time when *A and the global alliance op model started to gain serious traction in the industry.... 

<<AJ and Qantas please take note, we are not that keen on the Middle East and Dubai.>>

And U seriously think that after betting heavily on the QF+EK JV and the DXB hub, AJ will just abandon all that(Or start something else likely less profitable to cannibalize biz away fm the JV) in order to <<take note>> from U or me or anyone else?

<<Please give us options...>>

Why ask AJ or QF to give us travel routing options like a teenager asking his parents to give more cable TV options @ home?  Unless U're tied by a financial chain, just move out and buy whatever cable subscription U desire.

Similarly, unless U are hopelessly tied to QF's FFP, plenty of route options(Frankly, the mkt is flooded with options these days) exist for decades so why wait for QF to provide them?

FLX, feel free to use the formatting toolbar atop the comments window (or the standard keyboard shortcut) to format quotes from an arricle or previous post as italics instead of using those ugly << and >> marks. :)

The point I was trying to make is the people would like to fly to Europe with QF, but prefer Singapore and HK over Dubai which is clearly shown in AUSBT's survey. I like to support my national carrier, but don't like or agree with there choice of stopover so options via Asia would be good. You don't have to like or agree with my comment.

I voted with my wallet and stopped from QF to Europe some time ago.  Clearly not enough people have done the same as nothing's changed!

Agreed!  I prefer to stay on QF metal and with 4 flights/year LHR to Aus I'm bored to tears of Dubai!

The airport lacks soul. Just a boring place with no atmosphere. I agree I am in no hurry to rush back.

Regardless of your careful analysis, if you get on the LH website, you're just as likely to see them selling you a business class ticket from FRA to Oz, connecting to QF in SIN or HKG as you are to see them putting you on to a *A carrier.

I'm glad U raised this point.  Yes, U can buy a QF flight in J(In fact, all classes) on LH website as long as it's connecting with another LH flight.  This is not an uncommon sales practice by airlines crossing the alliance boundary.

However, hv U also noticed that for a FRA to Oz flight, *A carriers on that route always seem to hv a higher display priority by default(i.e. before a visitor plays with flight options sorting) among all options on the LH website?  Most importantly, the lowest available fare appear much more often for the option with SQ(LH and SQ has a JV) than for the option with QF(Almost always shown in normal fare code) across a range of departure dates?

2 brands of peanut butter on display in an aisle inside a supermkt.  Brand X is positioned @ the front of the aisle along with sharp signage saying price is 30% off during promo period.  Brand X is a JV partner of this supermkt chain.  Meanwhile Brand Y is placed far back @ the end of the aisle with its price sticker unchanged for mths.  At the cashier, do U think Brand X or Brand Y will pop-up more often even though this supermkt, in theory, welcomes a shopper to select either?

I'm just waiting for the day when QF funnel both MEL and SYD flights  to Dubai onto a single flight to London

IMHO it just a matter of time.

It certainly does more reading than listening when it comes to selecting & continuously committing to its location decision re where to connect traffic:

Less listening to travellers whom prefer SIN/BKK/HKG where  QF tried before.

More reading into the actual pax load data & op cost trend analysis comparison pre-DXB vs post-DXB.

As per QF's financial performance on European routes since trading SIN/BKK/HKG for DXB, reading seems to hv worked out much better for QF than listening.....

First of all I am not interested in their bottom numbers whatsoever – I am interested to fly where I like to fly instead of where I force to fly.

And secondly their profit based on falling of oil prices and reduction of routes (and therefore planes). May be partially on fact that Qantas more and more became Emirates ticket agent instead of being great airline as it was once upon time.

Does not matter what – people voting with their wallets and finding other alternatives. In the past Qantas was flying multiply routes in Europe – via Singapore, via Hong Kong to London and Frankfurt. Now we have only two planes and I bet soon will be just one.

They better listen otherwise they generate good margin in percentage, but in absolute figures it will be just enough for AJ pay off.

And if I so keen about Dubai I always can buy Emirates directly and it usually cheaper.

You are 'not interested in their bottom numbers' yet you seems to be interested in their connection strategy(or rather a change of strategy to the old/your preferred way).  But last time I heard, network connection strategy has everything to do with 'bottom numbers'.  Instead of keep wondering why QF do not listen to travellers' preference but ignore their financials @ the same time, I've been trying to understand the underlying facts & reasons why they don't & won't listen and continued their current path.  I mean it surely couldn't be just AJ inherently luv to piss off travellers and bring down QF with him(By all accounts, he did just the opposite over the past few difficult yrs) in the process....

'...instead of where I force to fly.''

It's unfortunate to be trapped in such situation of being forced to fly with a carrier.  May I know where is THE force come from or in what form?  I'm really curious.

Usually when I(Or my friends, family or colleagues) sense just a tiny winny bit of force being exerted upon me to choose carrier X  or its routing which I don't like, I just instantly buy another option...possibly with carrier Y.  Problem solved and carrier X won't even know I don't like it or its routing....it's the job of carrier X, not mine, to find out from mountains of mkt data to see if enough folks acted like I did or did the opposite(i.e. many more has chosen carrier X or its routing than those who didn't).

'their profit based on falling of oil prices' only partially explain QF's overall performance recovery as stated on their financial public records.  Besides, all airlines benefit fm low oil prices but QF still outperformed its peers(Most notably SQ) financially in the same period.  Why?

'reduction of routes' is a big contributor to QF's recovery.  Historically in this industry worldwide, airlines often hv to shrink/rationalize 1st in order to grow/become sustainable again.

'...Qantas more and more became Emirates ticket agent'

And what exactly is wrong with that for part of your network in which your op is inherently much weaker/less profitable than your partner's op?  Over the past 20yrs, how many JL ticket holders were actually carried by QF metals instead of JL metals on Japan-AU routes?  How many AA ticket holders were actually carried by QF metals instead of AA metals across the Pacific?  In biz, what's wrong with focusing on where U're strong(e.g. QF lately has been doing exactly that across the Pcf) and leaning on your partner where U're weak?  It's a win-win and precisely the genesis for all alliances or JVs.

'instead of being great airline as it was once upon time'.

I'm always amused by such comments...almost like a tale/folklore.  They referred to the apparent greatness /superficial success via an op model used by QF in a very very distant past.  It was an era when:

1. EK and an array of int'l competitors equal to or stronger than QF today didn't existed.

 2. QF was @ least partially gov't owned, subsidized, supported, protected(Otherwise, why Ansett's int'l network remained so tiny for yrs?), etc. until 97.  It simply didn't hv to worry much about 'bottom numbers' just like U(i.e. travelers) and could select connecting points and where to fly according to pax preferrence or tech limitations in that era.

Unfortunately, the mkt has moved on and a few decades is an eternity in this industry.   No way QF's old model would survive today.

An honest question I present(Not meant to be judgemental at all): Do folks prefer A or B?

A) A superficially strong QF with the red kangaroo tails popping up in all major EU cities plus hubbing in SIN/BKK/HKG preferred by travelers but bleed like hell financially and @ risk to seek tax payer support.

B) A QF with a superficially tiny Euro op footprint where the red kangaroo tail only show up in LHR plus focusing all its European fleet power only in DXB hub hated by travellers but achieve rock solid financial/investment status yr after yr which easily enable funding for product/fleet upgrade.

'people voting with their wallets and finding other alternatives'

Absolutely the principle I adhere to and that's why I'm so curious  about the force in 'where I force to fly' U mentioned.

On the other hand, the inconvenient truth here is op+financial data suggest QF traffic didn't dropped post-DXB and more & more people voting with their wallets to stick with QF+DXB hub instead of choosing other alternatives.

'...Qantas was flying multiply routes in Europe - via Singapore'

U mean the home of 1 of QF's most powerful enemy and where QF has no real local friend?  Yes, a perfect location to clash with that titan and got plenty of financial bruises in the process in order to divert precious QF resources fm where they were truly needed(e.g. Trans-Pcf) and out of enemy range....  Travelers had been cheering for that spectacle for over 2 decades.

'via Hong Kong'

Despite nominally in the same brotherhood, CX and QF basically wanted each other wounded if not dead in HKG.  And unlike in SIN where the local authority @ least pretend to be a friend and welcome QF investment to build its hub+JetStar, CX and HKG authority are aligned to ensure QF Group hv no room to grow connecting feeds @ HKG.  Result? HKG-LHR didn't last  long at all despite QF traveller's preference.

'they generate good margin, but in absolute figures....just enough for...'

Data per QF financials reported robust growth in %, in AUD absolute figures and most importantly in topline Rev$ +pax traffic count.

Too much writing to answer point by point, so just thesis:

1. I like to support national carrier, so all equal I will choose Qantas even if it 10% dearer. So I unhappy that I cannot do so en route to Europe.
2. I prefer by huge margin when Qantas was state company and I am old enough to remember those times and to be able to compare. Then “supporting Qantas” was making far more sense then now and even term “national carrier” now somewhat misleading.
3. I would not fly via Dubai regardless of price. Well, to be honest if it 4 times less I probably reconsider.
4. I utterly hate relationship between Qantas and Emirates because I strongly believe that relationship is one-way.

I love fly via Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok) and I will continue to do so.

Check the actual fares being offered for the LX+QF combo  or the LH+QF combo and don't be surprised to return to the reality of lower fares offered by alliance /JV options(e.g. LH+SQ, QF+EK).