Qantas: non-stop Sydney, Melbourne to London, New York by 2022

I wonder if this is a just a publicity exercise for the time being. If demand for the direct PER-LHR flights is consistently high, then it may work. But direct flights to London and NYC are risky. If you can't consistently fill the plane, it may not be viable.

The biggest risk is that both Airbus and Boeing may say it just isn't worth developing such a plane.  Who, apart from Qantas will be interested?  Unless you can sell 200+, it will be a loss making investment.  Both have already lost significant sums on the A345 and 77L. They may not have the stomach for such a risk when the real sweet spot at the moment seems to be longer range single aisle jets

The gamble is also on fuel prices. If they are high the cost of carrying the extra fuel may outweigh a stop. Despite AJs comment about sacrificing passengers they will have to do so just as they do on most occasions on the Dallas Sydney A380 leg, And as they permanently do with the low seat numbers on the 789. 

This would be amazing, however, is it viable for Boeing/Airbus and Qantas?

For the aicraft makers, they need to sell a good amount of planes for it to be worth the risk. At the moment, Qantas is the only one that wants these planes.

For Qantas, is it worth investing in the money for these planes. They would have to be unbelievebly efficient to make these routes work. Is it viable? Will customers prefer non-stop? 20 hours in a long thin tube, if you think realistically, unless if you got a good deal of space, you will not be the happiest chappy. And, fuel prices are going to have to rise soon. Where will they deploy these planes if it is not viable?

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.

I'm also curious about crew - what's the limit for one crew to work a flight right now, and how much (if any) does taking a few hours off in the crew rest allow for extending their total work hours? I feel like 20hrs + would mean they may need a much larger crew rest and an entire substitute crew? And even if they didn't, I'm sure they'd have to rest them for multiple days on either end, which could add up on the hotel costs too rather than switching out crew more efficiently at a middle stop point.

Please don't let this be an opportunity for the cynical ABT followers to rant.  This is a bold and achievable anouncement that we should applaud Qantas for making.  I look forward to seeing it happen

This proves what I've been saying for a while that Perth is a stop-gap

I think they will need three crews on board for 20 hours as against two for the Dallas et al flights.

Its good BNE is getting considered

I think the caveat puts this down as a bit of a stunt, you build it and we will buy it.

It will work if they don't have to adjust the landing gear too much to take the higher weight. Adding more tanks to the A359 worked up to a point but not quite enough for AJ. They might add more tanks to the A350-1000 and see what they can get out of it. That would also keep the seat numbers closer to 300 than 250.

JFK is certainly doable in the A350ULR and probably the 777-8 too (although the return trip may be tough, but PER-LHR pushes the 787-9 to the limits and that's viable so...). Its LHR which is the tough one.

QF probably wants to use the same aircraft for both LHR and JFK to minimise the variety of aircraft in its fleet.

Rio is an interesting one! Also if you pause the map in the promo Project Sunrise clip, on the map when it zooms out they also have capetown as a destination on that map with dotted line from east coast of AUS! I wonder why it is not mentioned in promo video but is on that map? All other destinations on that map (Paris, London, New York, Rio) are mentioned?

Can't wait for QF to call it uneven playing field when they axe the routes upon juice hitting 100/bbl

I think it's a smart move by Qantas, would significantly reduce the impact of the hub airlines (SQ, CX, ME3 etc) as they'd fly right over them, challenges both Airbus and Boeing to be creative and thirdly potentially puts all the pressure on Airbus re the A380 orders and options, if they can't deliver a plane well there's really nothing for QF to buy, so potentially a very good negotiating position out of the options.

We're talking a 20+ hrs flight. Once you stretch out the 8hrs sleep you're still looking at 12hrs to put up with. Only so many meals and movies I can put up with in one go. Plus the longer the flight the greater the chance of maintenance problems. Just look at Sydney - Dallas. That route has more delays and cancellations on that route than any other. I think this is just Mr Joyce making sure that his nice big profit gets maximum media exposure.

I can imagine doing 20 hours in Business or First, but I can't see any appeal for Economy passengers, or even Premium Economy. There's not much point touting the extra unbroken sleep time if you're not in a seat conducive to sleeping in the first place!

We know that QF has 8 B789s on delivery - first 4 in FY18 and second 4 in FY19. Both Aircraft B777-8X and A359ULR would have enough range to fly from East Coast to JFK non-stop.

Good to see QF upgrading from Skybed to Business Suites. The Business Suites is a better product than the outdated Skybeds.

20hour flight no matter the class of travel would just be terrible. Who are the people that think one can sleep for that long, and the poor crew, what a terrible work day for them! We already have to put up with terrible seating, food and entertainment screens at least getting out allows us to have a stretch!!!

I'm hoping they can launch medium haul first rather than super long haul such as Kuala Lumpur. Many codeshare flights can be established

Probably off topic and undoubtedly just me but the sense of awe and wonder that you may finally have the chance to board a gleaming new Airbus or Boeing in Syd or LHR and complete the journey in one all be at long leap is remarkable and maybe worth the development for this alone. May also merit a wee article looking back on the days then hours it used to take and the many exotic stops along the way.

AJ has to get walk real & lose payload for these lengths. Expecting to carry 300 people these lengths is not comfort realistic. Carrying 170 allows Qantas to return to their roots of a perfect saftey record & premium service. 

Using piece of string on a globe the polar route comes close to overflying Toronto?? 

I get the attraction in the premium classes, but why would anyone travelling in economy want to be on an aircraft for that long? Geez, I live for the transit stop on the way to Europe to walk and stretch the legs!

@craigi77:

Thinking outside the square a bit. I wonder if some intelligent engineer has found a way to run a solar powered electric motor to somehow keep the plane flying while at high altitude cruising speed?

Not economically viable even if they get the planes. SYD->LAX flies half empty in Economy for half the year already. Now imagine a separate flight taking some of that traffic direct to JFK. 

Publicity stunt...got air time and newscoverage everywhere, but from a business perspective tell me how this will move the needle on qantas' bottom line. There simply isn't a market for triple daily into JFK nor 4x daily into heathrow (incl Perth)...more importantly Qantas results showed "international" dragging the chain on performance. Will they end up doing non stops from Sydney to JFK and Heathrow...yes, but it will happen post 2022 and Melbourne and brizzie will be waiting!

Given the anticipated discomfort of being in economy on these flights, I wonder if the conclusion will be that these flights should be nothing less than PE and the mass people movers like A380 that need to stop become overwhelmingly economy class? Similar to the old SQ approach, but with the PE concession, and a suggestion that first could be included.

I would fly on PER-LHR direct, but not SYD-LHR. There comes a point where a flight can be too long, and 20 hours on a plane is such flight.

It just daunts on me that SYD/MEL-JFK nonstop makes tons  of econ/mkt sense fm QF Trans-Pcf network effectiveness perspective.

An interesting read on a traveller re Auckland to Doha, that gives some insight into what this would be like.

@Steve987:

Fantastic news!!!

Great news.  Good work Qantas.