.......Returning back to the original question of "Does Qantas really want me to fly with them?", I can imagine the discussion with a Qantas representative.......
Thanks for putting smile on my face )) Question, of course, was rhetorical - as I said I do not remember when I purchased QF international ticket last time. And talking supply/demand business - QF actually VERY competitive when you start your flight outside Australia. So why they getting on us? I suppose because they can. How they fill their seats from Australia? I guess by people who start their joinery outside Australia and by Australians who do not pay for their fare (i.e. employers paying for them). PS just checked reverse flight MXP-MEL-MXP. Cheapest option as it should be is via DXB with EK/QF metal and total price is (drums.....) $5700, pretty much on par with AY.
I hear your frustration as a fellow hand on heart certified patriot of the lucky country :) However, there's an old adage that says something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
Yes, that pricing makes no sense on paper. But what we don't know is the variables that some have already mentioned:
- Is it that CX, SQ and AY are in sales periods at the moment and QF isn't?
- Did QF close and re-open the various fare buckets?
- Can the others charge less of a premium cause they have lest costs, (such as training and not having to pay casuals $50 an hour).
- QF is a legacy carrier and business class is a premium product. Could it just be that the luxe market does not really negotiate on price? (It would be hard to price match a Maserati with a Ford).
That being said, I do understand how QF trying to sell you an all EK metal ticket when the ticket is cheaper on EK direct is a head scratcher and do share your views that Qantas should be renamed 'The Spirit of Sydney'.
I am not asking if you understand how Qantas manages S&D, I was asking generally whether you are factoring in the fundamental rules of S&D into your motivation to create this post.
Comparing Qantas to Cathy, or Finnair etc is an exercise for YOU to understand where the best deal is for your dollar based on your purchasing criteria. It is not an exercise in whether an airline is prepared to show loyalty to you as a consumer.
All airlines that operate international routes will face seasonal demand issues that impact pricing, i.e:
Look at fare pricing between AU and NZ at the end of each school holiday period
Look at pricing to China just before and after CNY
Look at pricing to Nth America during ski seasons
As you note Serg (twice) you cannot recall the last time you booked a Qantas flight - but you're asking Qantas to now offer you loyalty and preferential pricing...
....You are missing my point re supply and demand...
Mark, you missed something as well - my question was rhetorical, i.e. it was not a real question, but rather amusement how Qantas manage to charge as much as they charge when there are plethora of much better (cheaper, more convenient airport of transfer, more flights, better seats etc) options around. What you saying is correct, but irrelevant because it applicable to all carriers.
So Serg, if your question was rhetorical, why frame it in such a way that it was a vicious attack on Qantas?
Wouldn't the rhetorical question be - "I don't think Australian carriers want my business because they won't offer ultra low cost fares across 3 or 4 classes, season-agnostic fares, supply and demand elastic availability, high amenity flights to far flung places in Asia and Europe, on an as needed basis and per my fickle needs?"
As you noted twice in posts, you have so little experience with Qantas International that your memory is failing you as to when you last flew them...yet you clearly assert that competitor hard/soft offerings are superior?
So Serg, if your question was rhetorical, why frame it in such a way that it was a vicious attack on Qantas? ...
IMHO they truly deserve it. They charge Australians in excess of 50% more than people from other countries for the same routes. No-one talk anything like "ultra-low" here, but I NEVER saw that QF is even remotely competitive when flying from Australia. And this is considering that their hard product is way behind majority of competitors. And this is considering that their competitors flying far more flight like MEL-SIN by SQ (1 flight by QF and 4 by SQ) or MEL HKG by CX (1 by QF and 3 by CX). And this is considering that QF does not even fly overseas from Perth. Thanks to deregulation and privatization. I thing that discussion is over and lets agree to disagree.
It's strange that I've seen this before that flag carriers are seen to be particularly expensive at home. I've heard Israeli's say El Al (LY) is over-priced and Singaporean's say SQ is over priced.
Get rid of QF,EK and BA, QF and EK has expensive prices ($9800 and $7000, respectively), BA has 2-4-2 in Club World, on the other hand.
CX and SQ only charges $6200, what you got is GREAT service (as you'd expect from a premium Asian carrier) and direct aisle access for all your flights, let alone AY only charges $5500 on MEL to MXP (you're ended up flying QF metal between MEL and SIN.)
For oneworld operated flight, you get QF SC, for EK operated, you don't.
QF trades on the "national flag carrier" image but does nothing for Australia or Australians, and there is another national airline Virgin. QF over charges for an inferior product. QF is for corporates with huge rebates on their accounts or too much money, or poor simple mugs who know no better. AY offer a great product, as does CX and SQ. Heaps of options and I prefer to fly through Asia to the middle run.
So Serg, if your question was rhetorical, why frame it in such a way that it was a vicious attack on Qantas? ...
IMHO they truly deserve it. They charge Australians in excess of 50% more than people from other countries for the same routes. No-one talk anything like "ultra-low" here, but I NEVER saw that QF is even remotely competitive when flying from Australia. And this is considering that their hard product is way behind majority of competitors. And this is considering that their competitors flying far more flight like MEL-SIN by SQ (1 flight by QF and 4 by SQ) or MEL HKG by CX (1 by QF and 3 by CX). And this is considering that QF does not even fly overseas from Perth. Thanks to deregulation and privatization. I thing that discussion is over and lets agree to disagree.
Serg,
You have noted twice that you don't fly Qantas - in fact, you stated you couldn't recall the last time you booked a Qantas flight.
So given this, why would you state "that their hard product is way behind majority of competitors"?
Putting aside price for the moment (and yes I get it that you are a price driven consumer), why are you stating such an opinion of a product that you don't 'seem' to have experienced yet alone purchased?
And given this lack of real world experience (hey, I'm in assumption mode here working off your comments), why would you state "they deserve it"?
This is not about whether you now want to agree to disagree with me - for mine, it's about your statements that I don't believe are warranted/valid. But, I'm guessing you'll want to disagree...
QF trades on the "national flag carrier" image but does nothing for Australia or Australians, and there is another national airline Virgin. QF over charges for an inferior product. QF is for corporates with huge rebates on their accounts or too much money, or poor simple mugs who know no better. AY offer a great product, as does CX and SQ. Heaps of options and I prefer to fly through Asia to the middle run.
You're right, I never fly QF in international routes, but still managed to qualified for Platinum One (I'm prequalify for Platinum this year, since I'm a LTG and oneworld Emerald).
On a side note it is incredible how much more expensive are fares ex-AU, I should rather say how much cheaper is to fly ex-IT...typical JCL sale fares (currently CX just launched a new sales period) are about 3000 EUR (4200 AUD) for MXP/FCO to any Australian City pretty much. Last year I remember QR offering the same travel, via DOH for 2400 EUR (3400 AUD)...I have pretty much lost hope to fly QF from Italy to Australia in Premium Class, always more expensive and at a cheaper price I can rather take EK using QF codeshare and earn the same points / SC, or any other OW carrier
So Serg, if your question was rhetorical, why frame it in such a way that it was a vicious attack on Qantas? ...
IMHO they truly deserve it. They charge Australians in excess of 50% more than people from other countries for the same routes. No-one talk anything like "ultra-low" here, but I NEVER saw that QF is even remotely competitive when flying from Australia. And this is considering that their hard product is way behind majority of competitors. And this is considering that their competitors flying far more flight like MEL-SIN by SQ (1 flight by QF and 4 by SQ) or MEL HKG by CX (1 by QF and 3 by CX). And this is considering that QF does not even fly overseas from Perth. Thanks to deregulation and privatization. I thing that discussion is over and lets agree to disagree.
Serg - I'd suggest doing your research before posting. Your QF MEL-SIN and MEL-HKG frequencies are technically wrong as they are double-daily on some days, and QF also flies to SIN and seasonally to AKL from PER.
Serg
Serg
QFF
Member since 12 Apr 2013
Total posts 1,009
.......Returning back to the original question of "Does Qantas really want me to fly with them?", I can imagine the discussion with a Qantas representative.......
Thanks for putting smile on my face
))
Question, of course, was rhetorical - as I said I do not remember when I purchased QF international ticket last time.
And talking supply/demand business - QF actually VERY competitive when you start your flight outside Australia. So why they getting on us? I suppose because they can. How they fill their seats from Australia? I guess by people who start their joinery outside Australia and by Australians who do not pay for their fare (i.e. employers paying for them).
PS just checked reverse flight MXP-MEL-MXP. Cheapest option as it should be is via DXB with EK/QF metal and total price is (drums.....) $5700, pretty much on par with AY.
Jono
Jono
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 25 Jan 2013
Total posts 108
I hear your frustration as a fellow hand on heart certified patriot of the lucky country :) However, there's an old adage that says something is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.
markpk
markpk
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 29 Nov 2013
Total posts 459
Serg,
You are missing my point re supply and demand.
I am not asking if you understand how Qantas manages S&D, I was asking generally whether you are factoring in the fundamental rules of S&D into your motivation to create this post.
Comparing Qantas to Cathy, or Finnair etc is an exercise for YOU to understand where the best deal is for your dollar based on your purchasing criteria. It is not an exercise in whether an airline is prepared to show loyalty to you as a consumer.
All airlines that operate international routes will face seasonal demand issues that impact pricing, i.e:
As you note Serg (twice) you cannot recall the last time you booked a Qantas flight - but you're asking Qantas to now offer you loyalty and preferential pricing...
Serg
Serg
QFF
Member since 12 Apr 2013
Total posts 1,009
....You are missing my point re supply and demand...
Mark, you missed something as well - my question was rhetorical, i.e. it was not a real question, but rather amusement how Qantas manage to charge as much as they charge when there are plethora of much better (cheaper, more convenient airport of transfer, more flights, better seats etc) options around. What you saying is correct, but irrelevant because it applicable to all carriers.
markpk
markpk
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 29 Nov 2013
Total posts 459
So Serg, if your question was rhetorical, why frame it in such a way that it was a vicious attack on Qantas?
Wouldn't the rhetorical question be - "I don't think Australian carriers want my business because they won't offer ultra low cost fares across 3 or 4 classes, season-agnostic fares, supply and demand elastic availability, high amenity flights to far flung places in Asia and Europe, on an as needed basis and per my fickle needs?"
As you noted twice in posts, you have so little experience with Qantas International that your memory is failing you as to when you last flew them...yet you clearly assert that competitor hard/soft offerings are superior?
I'm not getting your 'amusement' with Qantas?
Serg
Serg
QFF
Member since 12 Apr 2013
Total posts 1,009
IMHO they truly deserve it. They charge Australians in excess of 50% more than people from other countries for the same routes. No-one talk anything like "ultra-low" here, but I NEVER saw that QF is even remotely competitive when flying from Australia. And this is considering that their hard product is way behind majority of competitors. And this is considering that their competitors flying far more flight like MEL-SIN by SQ (1 flight by QF and 4 by SQ) or MEL HKG by CX (1 by QF and 3 by CX). And this is considering that QF does not even fly overseas from Perth.
Thanks to deregulation and privatization.
I thing that discussion is over and lets agree to disagree.
Jono
Jono
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 25 Jan 2013
Total posts 108
It's strange that I've seen this before that flag carriers are seen to be particularly expensive at home. I've heard Israeli's say El Al (LY) is over-priced and Singaporean's say SQ is over priced.
btaus
btaus
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 15 Dec 2016
Total posts 171
Get rid of QF,EK and BA, QF and EK has expensive prices ($9800 and $7000, respectively), BA has 2-4-2 in Club World, on the other hand.
CX and SQ only charges $6200, what you got is GREAT service (as you'd expect from a premium Asian carrier) and direct aisle access for all your flights, let alone AY only charges $5500 on MEL to MXP (you're ended up flying QF metal between MEL and SIN.)
zoomzoom
zoomzoom
Member since 21 Aug 2015
Total posts 4
QF trades on the "national flag carrier" image but does nothing for Australia or Australians, and there is another national airline Virgin. QF over charges for an inferior product. QF is for corporates with huge rebates on their accounts or too much money, or poor simple mugs who know no better. AY offer a great product, as does CX and SQ. Heaps of options and I prefer to fly through Asia to the middle run.
John Phelan
John Phelan
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Oct 2011
Total posts 262
markpk
markpk
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 29 Nov 2013
Total posts 459
Thanks to deregulation and privatization.
I thing that discussion is over and lets agree to disagree.
Serg,
You have noted twice that you don't fly Qantas - in fact, you stated you couldn't recall the last time you booked a Qantas flight.
So given this, why would you state "that their hard product is way behind majority of competitors"?
Putting aside price for the moment (and yes I get it that you are a price driven consumer), why are you stating such an opinion of a product that you don't 'seem' to have experienced yet alone purchased?
And given this lack of real world experience (hey, I'm in assumption mode here working off your comments), why would you state "they deserve it"?
This is not about whether you now want to agree to disagree with me - for mine, it's about your statements that I don't believe are warranted/valid. But, I'm guessing you'll want to disagree...
btaus
btaus
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 15 Dec 2016
Total posts 171
Wingflex
Wingflex
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 13 Feb 2015
Total posts 12
On a side note it is incredible how much more expensive are fares ex-AU, I should rather say how much cheaper is to fly ex-IT...typical JCL sale fares (currently CX just launched a new sales period) are about 3000 EUR (4200 AUD) for MXP/FCO to any Australian City pretty much. Last year I remember QR offering the same travel, via DOH for 2400 EUR (3400 AUD)...I have pretty much lost hope to fly QF from Italy to Australia in Premium Class, always more expensive and at a cheaper price I can rather take EK using QF codeshare and earn the same points / SC, or any other OW carrier
Speak
Speak
Member since 30 Dec 2014
Total posts 25
Thanks to deregulation and privatization.
I thing that discussion is over and lets agree to disagree.
Serg
Serg
QFF
Member since 12 Apr 2013
Total posts 1,009
...it's about your statements that I don't believe are warranted/valid...
And this is no more than your personal opinion that has exactly the same rights to exists as mine. And indeed I disagree