Here is Qantas’ new A321XLR business class
Qantas’ latest jet comes with a ‘same but different’ take on domestic business and economy class…
By David Flynn, August 29 2024
Executive Traveller exclusive
Qantas will begin flying its new Airbus A321XLR jets from April next year, and passengers can look forward to a fresh yet in many ways familiar experience in both business and economy class.
This starts with new seats to replace the decades-old pews of the Boeing 737s, which are on their way out as the A321XLRs swoop in to become Qantas’ single-aisle workhorse on domestic and short-range international flights (such as New Zealand, Fiji and Noumea).
But temper your expectations: the A321XLR seats are essentially a modernised version of those of the 737, in fact they’re almost identical to the newer Qantas A220, including the lack of seatback video screens.
Instead, all passengers on the Qantas A321XR will have to either bring their own entertainment or use the Qantas Entertainment App to stream content from the plane’s library of movies and TV shows to their smartphone or tablet.
“Nearly half of all the customers Qantas carries each year travel on our 737 fleet so the A321XLR aircraft that we’ve ordered to replace them will be incredibly important for our future,” notes Qantas Group CEO Vanessa Hudson.
“The A321XLR is a fantastic aircraft to be part of our next generation fleet, and its range and versatility will give us to opportunity to explore more non-stop routes and operate them cost effectively.”
Qantas A321XLR business class
Up front will be 20 of the latest business class seats, arranged in five rows of a 2-2 layout.
Qantas A321XLR business class.
That’s a 66% increase from the 737’s 12 business class berths, indicating Qantas’ continued confidence in the premium travel sector.
Legroom will be about the same as on the Boeing 737, where the pitch is 37” in business class, with a 5” recline; other comfort factors include both calf-rests and legrests.
Qantas A321XLR business class.
But as with the Qantas A220, without seatback video screens passengers will have to bring their own device, which can be perched onto fold-down holders and plugged into adjacent USB-A and USB-C ports.
Qantas A321XLR business class.
Also on the power front: each A321XLR business class seat also gets its own wireless charging pad (built into a nook under the armrest), but there’s no AC outlet.
And as on the 737, these A321XLR business class seats are recliners rather than lie-flat beds – although that’s totally in keeping with their relatively short routes of up to 5 hours, ranging from the ‘golden triangle’ of the east coast capitals (Brisbane-Sydney-Melbourne) plus nearby Pacific destinations to transcon journeys.
However, as the A321XLR’s extensive range can deliver non-stop flights of 10+ hours from Australia to most of south-east Asia, Qantas is considering business class flatbeds for a second ‘international’ fleet of A321XLRs.
Qantas A321XLR economy class
Behind the partition of the business class cabin stretches a bank of economy seats in that familiar 3-3 layout.
Qantas A321XLR economy class.
The A321XLR’s longer body allows Qantas to fit 177 seats down the back of the (Air)bus – a 9% boost over the 737’s economy class – but with the same minimum 30” pitch, although there are several extra legroom rows.
(The first three A321XLRs to be delivered will have 180 seats, but Executive Traveller understands a block of three seats will be replaced by an additional economy lav on A321XLRs four and onwards.)
If the seats look familiar, that’s because they’re from the same manufacturer – Recaro – as the Qantas A220 and forthcoming Qantas A350, and have received the same styling touch by Qantas designer David Caon.
Qantas A321XLR economy class.
In fact, the Qantas A321XLR uses an identical seat as the A350 Project Sunrise jets, which is a lighter-weight version of the A220’s Recaro economy seat.
While Qantas has opted for this slimline seat design, the advanced materials and ergonomic design could deliver a little more legroom – or rather knee-room, which is usually where things get tight – while the seat itself is very slightly wider (we’re talking 1.5cm) than on the 737, and has extra cushioning.
Each Qantas A321XLR economy seat is fitted with a USB-C power outlet and a flip-down ‘device holder’ ledge where you can perch your smartphone or tablet.
Qantas A321XLR economy class.
Qantas A321XLR, from tip to tail…
No matter where you’re sitting on the Qantas A321XLR, you’ll be able to tap into the same fast and free WiFi as on the Boeing 737s.
Qantas has also configured its A321XLRs with oversized ‘Airspace XL’ luggage bins unlocking 60% more space compared to the 737.
These can not only accommodate larger cabin bags, they allow standard roll-on bags to be loaded on their sides instead of flat, creating room for up to four bags in each bin.
Passengers will also notice a more spacious feel on board the A321XLR compared to the 737, due to a wider cabin and larger windows; the jet is also slightly quieter, especially when cruising.
Where Qantas will fly the A321XLR
The Qantas has signed up for an initial 28 A321XLRs “and we have options for a lot more” says Qantas Chief Financial Officer Rob Marcolina – and they’ll be needed, given the airline has 75 Boeing 737s to be retired over the next ten years.
“Domestically, the XLRs will obviously be flying on our trunk markets” such as ‘the golden triangle’ of Australia’s east coast capitals, “and also east-west,” Qantas Group CEO Vanessa Hudson told Executive Traveller in June this year.
But the red-tailed A321XLRs will also spread their wings much further afield, thanks to an additional high-capacity fuel tank boosting its non-stop capability to as much as 11 hours or 8700km.
Expect to see the A321XLR on domestic as well as international routes.
That’s almost 3,000km more than the Qantas Boeing 737, and sufficient for direct flights from Australia to most of south-east Asia – opening up new routes where the economics of limited passenger numbers can’t justify larger twin-aisle jets such as the Airbus A330 or Boeing 787.
“Internationally the XLRs will be able to enter markets we haven’t been able to commercially operate” Hudson said, citing potential overseas XLR routes such as Adelaide-Singapore, Canberra-Singapore” as well as flights from Darwin and Perth, and “up into India (and) Malaysia.”
“We will absolutely consider all those routes” Hudson said, “and we’ll consider the product that we put on those aircraft as well.”
Qantas A321XLR business class flatbeds?
For that reason, business class flatbeds are being considered for a special fleet of ‘international’ A321XLRs.
“That’s something that we’re in the middle of analysing at the moment,” Qantas International CEO Cam Wallace told Executive Traveller during a briefing at Airbus headquarters in Toulouse, France, in July this year.
“One of the options is a sub-fleet with a lie-flat product” which would be focussed on international routes, and “we’re looking at the layout right now.”
“Obviously if you go for a lie-flat option you lose some seat density, and primarily they will be on the medium- to short-haul market.”
However, introducing two variations of the A321XLR adds cost and complications, while also reducing the ability to easily move aircraft across routes and around the network.
“We are in deep analysis at the moment on how many aircraft we could have in different configurations,” Wallace confirmed.
“We think that there’ll be enough medium-haul routes that we’ll be able to expand the network and (directly) connect cities, where people have to either go on a low-cost carrier or go through a midpoint hub… there's quite a significant range of network options for that aircraft.”
So does Wallace expect passengers will be happy to spend eight to ten hours on the single-aisle Qantas A32XLR? “Yeah, if we get the right product.”
Building out the Qantas A321XLR network
It’s also possible these international Qantas A321XLRs, with their higher degree of comfort – at least in business class – could dovetail into domestic east-west flying.
“Obviously it’ll be flying domestically as well, but with the likes of the Perth Western hub, we think there’s a lot of city pairs that we can connect… there are many, many A321XLR markets from India right through to Asia.”
“Some of them could be overnight flights, some of them could be day flights, so we’re just working through that.”
The prospect of those long flights, especially on overnight legs, should make flatbeds in the A321XLR business class a must-have – not just for passenger comfort of passengers but the competitiveness of Qantas.
Oneworld partner American Airlines will outfit its A321XLRs, also due to fly early next year, with private business class Flagship Suites which not only have fully-flat beds but sliding privacy doors.
American Airlines A321XLR business class.
And while American’s A321XLRs have the legs to fly all the way into Europe, they’ll first be seen on domestic transcontinental east-west routes such as Los Angeles and San Francisco to New York and Boston.
Qantas boss Hudson has notably also cited US east-west routes – which take roughly the same time as in Australia, albeit in a substantially larger market with four main carriers – as a benchmark for premium lie-flat business class.
“If you think about, and obviously we’ve made no decisions on this, but if you think about what’s happening in the US transcontinental (market), you’ve got a very kind of similar premium product,” Hudson told Executive Traveller.
“We’re not going to ever constrain ourselves to say these aircraft are just domestic or just international – the aircraft have got the capability to fly both.”
“So we need to make sure that we are using the aircraft and flying them and networking them as best we can.”
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
25 Jul 2013
Total posts 72
I'm still a bit confused as to why Qantas went for the A321XLR if they are going to configure them for domestic use. Why not order the A321 or A321LR and focus the XLR on longer range international ops? The XLR's extra fuel tank presumably reduces cargo capacity, so I dont see the benefit of using it domestically. Maybe they got a good deal? Anyone care to speculate?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
03 Jan 2014
Total posts 11
My thoughts exactly. It seems unusual not to just have normal A321s for domestic use, and a more expensive XLR sub fleet for longer range routes. They will lose flexibility for aircraft change out (which will be lost anyway if they have a sub fleet with a different layout), but that would be the only compromise to save costs associated with the XLR fleet. Potentially there is value in having aircraft not having to refuel to return to original airport, E.g. avoid ground crew costs and different fuel prices and time of refuelling in Cairns if the plane can make it back to Brisbane?
11 Sep 2018
Total posts 18
Agreed, it's a strange one.
The A321XLR fits in well with Jetstar's international routes and demographic.
Buying an A321XLR and putting it on domestic doesn't make much business sense. The additional fuel tanks would increase burn rates considerably over a standard A321.
Maybe they're looking to pass them off to Jetstar to open up more of asia?
22 Jul 2024
Total posts 1
All good points, Spacecadet. It seems Qantas are perhaps more confused than you are… another possibility is that they’re just drumming up a little “hype” without committing to anything.
One thing is for certain though - if recent performance is anything to go by, they will throw a dart at the board and end up using an aircraft (or sub-sub variant 😬) on a route that is inappropriate to the type 🤷🏻♂️ <cough> B738 trans-continental/SYD-DPS or A330 BNE-LAX <cough>
The last 15+ Qantas years have been hard to watch… I was once their staunchest fan (and still am to a degree) but it’s become so difficult to justify my loyalty. I can only imagine how it’s been for the thoroughly professional, dedicated frontline staff that I’ve encountered over the years.
Wow this went on quite a tangent! But anyway, I’d be very happy to be proved wrong about all predictions above; let’s hope they sort out their unfathomable, self-imposed fleet problems and turn a corner, reputation-wise 🤞🏼
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
Qantas are not confused at all! There's a fundamental misunderstanding of the XLR. It's not just about the extra fuel and higher MTOW, but about what they give up to carry the fuel. The LR basically gives up most of the cargo space whereas the redesign of the fuel tanks for the XLR give it significantly more volumetric space for cargo than LR but with the additional MTOW to lift both the fuel and cargo. For Qantas this is clearly a B737-800 replacement with more pax and significantly more cargo allowing SYD/MEL/BNE-PER westbound without the payload limitations of the B737-800. It's been acquired to be a beast on westbound PER flights - Qantas knew exactly what they were doing! Will be similarly useful into the Pacific! See: https://www.analyticflying.com/p/why-qantas-ordered-the-a321-xlr-without
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
25 Jul 2013
Total posts 72
Thanks eaf, this is a great article - very insightful.
09 Dec 2023
Total posts 8
Qantas has a long, proud history of making decisions that make absolutely no sense. Vanessa is carrying that on.
01 Dec 2012
Total posts 68
David makes a good point about Qantas competitiveness. In and out of Asia, the Qantas A321XLRs will be head-to-head with lie-flat J seats of wide bodies used by multiple carriers and in new narrow-bodies such as 737-8s of SQ and A321NEO LRs of Philippine Airlines. And transcon, particularly with the growth of the Perth hub, Qantas surely will want to maintain the competitive advantage of lie flat J currently delivered by A330s and 787s. The A321 may even make it worthwhile again to offer decent business class on the 5 hour cross-country haul to and from Brisbane.
20 Nov 2015
Total posts 483
Yes, it does seem odd to have an XLR for domestic routes but of course Qantas would have done all the numbers on this and from their perspective those numbers made sense. I think what we're seeing is a great price on the XLRs as part of the overall Qantas-Airbus deal and Qantas choosing to have just the one type which can fly domestic and international.
13 Jul 2011
Total posts 3
Overnight flights back from Asia on the XLR’s need flatbeds. Without them Qantas won’t even be in the race against all the Asian carriers flying wide body aircraft with flatbeds. I can’t see a sub fleet NOT happening.
25 Feb 2015
Total posts 68
I know numbers have been crunched, economics determined, but boy would one single consistent QF product of lie-flat J rolled out across all these A321s go down well with customers and help repair Qantas’ tarnished reputation in the immediate term. Not to mention how having a competitive and consistent product (no matter where you fly on them) would help for the longer term.
With Vanessa Hudson quoting in the recent ExecTraveller article about QF’s plan on being agile to open/close routes according to demand, having a consistent, high quality product would ensure success in that strategy. No point to jump on a market opportunity and introduce eg an ADL-SIN route when the only aircraft available for it turns out to be the domestic configured recliner J and meanwhile SQ offers a lie flat J product on the same route.
@Rarebreed I feel the same as you re loyalty to Qantas, but frustration at the way they’ve let their standards slip, and how hard it must be for staff to keep a smiling face.
12 May 2020
Total posts 5
Here's hoping the 2025 launch of Newcastle International airport will mean a direct Newcastle - Singapore flight, as these planes will makes the distance.
17 Nov 2023
Total posts 45
It's as simple as this. If they are not lie flat, I'm not paying for business class.
03 Mar 2023
Total posts 37
Agree, and I'm CERTAINLY not paying for business class for a seat that doesn't have a seatback TV screen!!!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
25 Feb 2017
Total posts 18
Really? On a 2 hour domestic sector you need a lie flat?
QFF
12 Apr 2013
Total posts 1559
Those ugly reclines is only good between ADL-MEL-SYD-BNE-CNS. For East Cost - Perth and to NZ QF should use proper J class
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
22 Aug 2015
Total posts 56
Agreed, Brisbane to Tokyo in one of those seats vs what ANA or JAL have in layflat there is no comparison...
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
04 Aug 2014
Total posts 13
The reputation issue can only be repaired with time and performance. Recent QF95 in business was very good all round but then got spoiled by cancelling QF96 coming back and we had to come Fiji Airways via Nadi. Nice plane and pleasant service but hardly any food or alcohol!
I am perturbed by the expectation from everyone that a flight like Syd-Per should be a wide body jet. If you look at the US, which is a way bigger market, all airlines are flying 737 Max or A321 between New York and LA. Yes most now have flat beds in business but not wide body. I think the reality is that the airline business is so cost competitive that we will see more of these types of offerings and it will only be long haul where we see wide body. Don't forget you can do 5 hour flights in Europe where business class is economy with a vacant seat in between.
12 May 2020
Total posts 5
Which is why when in Europe, I always fly economy rather than business, as its a complete waste of money. How European airlines have gotten away with this for so long is astounding.
Velocity
19 Jun 2013
Total posts 66
Simple. People (like “moi”, padding out status requalification mileage (for those FF schemes that are still purely class/mileage-based, like SQ). Cheaper than having to do a mileage run, if you’re very close to getting over the line.
Velocity
19 Jun 2013
Total posts 66
Plus, if you’re lucky, you might get a sandwich that isn’t semi-frozen, and doesn’t cost you extra on top of the fare.
25 Jan 2023
Total posts 2
An 8 hour flight to Asia with the domestic 30" pitch in economy?? I don't think so. 32" is normal for Asian carriers. with cheaper fares and better service to boot...
30 Jul 2015
Total posts 135
Looks like the seats are identical to those on the A220
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1224
So very much the domestic product we were expecting. In fact, it largely mirrors the product on VA's 737-8s though QF does not have the Economy X type product with 34" pitch available.
18 Sep 2015
Total posts 140
I'd never fly in one of these on an overnight.
17 May 2017
Total posts 18
Hmmmm .... no entertainment screen.
I travel with a mobile phone and a laptop. Just returned from the US, flying AA-1st class for domestic US legs. Had to use my mobile phone to watch their entertainment. So here's the thing. My mobile did not fit into the holder on the seat in front of me. So, for a 5hr cross country trip, I was watching my mobile, which was perched on my lap! Don't ask about meal service !!
And another thing. My laptop is tucked away in my carry-on and , I suspect, too big for the holder (again).
Personally, I hate this BYO trend, especially for business class passengers who pay a lot of money for a bit of comfort, service and facilities. I now use the word facilities with some trepidation.
Airlines are on a cost-cutting exercise, putting their bottom line first, as usual, at the expense of customer experience.
It's truly pathetic.
03 Mar 2023
Total posts 37
I agree wholeheartedly! 5 hours staring at a tiny mobile phone screen is not good. We'll all go blind or cross-eyed. No thanks.
I hate the BYO trend so much. Some airlines are at least going the other way. Airlines like Air Canada and Delta for for example.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
13 Nov 2018
Total posts 118
I love the BYO trend! It means that a lot of the space underneath the seat in front of you is no longer taken up with an entertainment system box. This is particularly useful in economy.
What I am unhappy about is the lack of true power in the seats.devices need to be charged. That includes laptops that often require up to 120 W. What fool made this decision? Because Qantas needs to get rid of that person pronto.
04 Sep 2019
Total posts 66
no entertainment screen is just penny pinching.
03 Mar 2023
Total posts 37
I am absolutely gobsmacked they don't have seatback IFE, not even in business class! WTF. Goodbye Qantas. I would never book a flight to SE Asia on an airline that doesn't have seatback IFE. Even on Brisbane to Perth it is ridiculous. Even most major US airlines include seatback IFE, as does Air Canada across their fleet. Qantas is a joke.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
13 Nov 2018
Total posts 118
No, they don’t. And if they do, they are terribly out of date, incredibly unresponsive, small and lack good content.
03 Mar 2023
Total posts 37
Yes they do. Air Canada, JetBlue, United, American and Delta have seatback IFE on all or most aircraft domestically in the US.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
13 Nov 2018
Total posts 118
Small, out of date, lacking content, and often don’t work properly. It’s better to bring your own. A smarter idea would be to have a screen that you can connect your own device to.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer - Chairmans Lounge
01 Sep 2011
Total posts 416
I just hope they dont angle the seats in such a way that the window is mostly behind you as it appears in the image of the AA seat. When Cathay had a seat angled like that the crew referred to them as coffins.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
05 May 2017
Total posts 18
Ok, if you tell me that i have to fly 8 hours to Asia in a single aisle A321 versus an A350/777/787, I know what i will be choosing.
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
Well they're not going to be sending this on 8 hour sectors into Asia! It's been pretty clear from the start that it's a short haul aircraft, ordered to replace the B737-800s.
Everyone obsesses about the XLR's range, entirely ignoring that the increased MTOW and fuel allows east to west coast flights without payload limits (that the B737-800s have) but not giving up the volumetric payload space that the A321 LR gives up to carry the fuel! It's an aircraft that perfectly fills a niche for Qantas!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
05 May 2017
Total posts 18
Actually they will be. See below from their CFO today,
The groups’s chief financial officer Rob Marcolina said the new aircraft would open more domestic opportunities as well as routes into Southeast Asia, plus “exciting” plans for direct routes between Perth and India.
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
Literally the article states that they'll have to consider the product they use for these flights noting that the recliners won't be viable for these flights!
They've gone to great lengths to note that the recliner product is for domestic and short international (e.g. NZ and Pacific) and not longer international into Asia, and been explicit about needing a lie flat product for business class on the XLR if they are to go further.
14 Oct 2016
Total posts 115
I could understand economy not having IFE as having free and fast wifi is something most airlines don't have but Business should have it as one of the perks should be you don't have to have a tangle of cords and devices to get a reasonable in-flight experience.
I'm wondering if this was a Joyce decision as the decisions would have been had to be taken a while ago. I think they should at least look at retro fitting the IFE into business.
03 Mar 2023
Total posts 37
Agree. Imagine spending money on business class in a brand new aircraft and having to watch your phone!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
30 Aug 2017
Total posts 24
A slightly glorified Jetstar experience with super slick marketing.
I'll stick with virgin and my half price business class fares (compared to QF) and complimentary economy x seating for platinum.
The E190s, A220s and less ancient 737s will be more than enough to service the sub 3 hr services until at least 2030 and beyond.
So many airlines are putting flat beds into narrow bodies successfully, when will Qantas catch up?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jun 2017
Total posts 39
No laptop power on a flight up to 10 hours in seats that really haven’t changed much since the 737? Same but different? Hmmm not really. More like same same. I get a charge pad, usb slots and lost a screen? Meh. This is the bench qantas is setting for the next 20 years for its workhorse aircraft? Sigh. Such a miss but what you get when there is no domestic competition. I think intl comments here generally are spot on. It’s a crap, non competitive product Qantas will offer. Bring on the gutting of airport slot anssignment and maybe we can get some redistribution of slot and decent competition where qantas has to think more like AA.
12 May 2020
Total posts 5
At least Qantas will insist on retaining the most important part of the flight, being welcomed to our own country!
01 Dec 2012
Total posts 68
No laptop power? That’s a downgrade from current 737 economy, at least in forward seats. While my newish laptop has reasonable battery life, I want to be able to charge it going across the continent, so I can use it after landing and as I head for meetings. And battery life is less if I need to do power-hungry tasks while flying. Unimpressed.
31 Mar 2014
Total posts 397
You charge the laptop from USB-C power
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
20 Aug 2014
Total posts 170
@grannular not all laptops charge from USB power. Especially high end machines made for demanding graphics intensive applications.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
20 Aug 2014
Total posts 170
Spot on @Airlie. Virgin have AC outlets in economy on their new aircraft. Qantas can't even put those in business class? Some people have to work on a coast to coast flight. But now I won't be able to charge my laptop.
31 Mar 2014
Total posts 397
My suggestion would be for people to submit feedback each time they fly the new planes saying how subpar the business class IFE is.
Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
04 May 2018
Total posts 19
Having the SQ B737 Max and the QF A321XLR reviewed by ET so close together shows just how many light years Qantas is behind the competition.
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
But they haven't ordered it to compete with SQ's B737s. It's been acquired to replace B737s on domestic routes. Would you be willing to pay the premium for that long haul configuration on short haul flights?
Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
04 May 2018
Total posts 19
The Qantas order for new aircraft on the short to medium routes includes the A320neo, A321neo, A321XLR, and the A220. The A220 is a direct replacement for the B717. The A320neo and A321neo is a direct replacement for the B737. The A321XLR will be better suited to flights into Asia where the return journey to Australia will be overnight, and on select domestic flights between Perth and the east coast. Of the B737 replacement aircraft, the A320neo and the A321neo will make up the bulk of the order. It is these aircraft that I expect to see on short haul flights. Besides, with the demise of Rex, Virgin is now my go to airline, irrespective of what aircraft Qantas puts in the sky.
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
They literally have zero A320neo and A321neo on order (they have A320neo on order for Jetstar). In 2022 they ordered 20x A321XLR and 20x A220 with options for 94 further aircraft. They have since exercised options for an additional 8x XLR and 11x A220, taking this up to 28x XLR and 31x A220, plus a remaining 75 options.
This is to replace 75x B738s and what was 20x B717s. What's immediately obvious is that these aren't one-for-one replacements since they have significantly more A220s on order than the B717s they were ordered to replace. The XLRs are the direct B738 replacement since it gives them an opportunity to grow capacity in slot constrained environments like SYD and MEL.
The enigma to many is why they ordered the XLR over the standard A321neo if they just wanted the capacity? It's all about the payload! They need/want the same aircraft to provide a capacity increase on routes like SYD-MEL and SYD-BNE, but they also need that same aircraft to fly BNE/SYD/MEL-PER. The challenge is that the standard A321neo would be massively payload restricted (even the B738s carry payload restrictions on these routes). The A321LR wouldn't run into payload restrictions but it gives up a huge amount of its cargo space to carry the fuel. The XLR's innovative fuel tank redesign is a game changer since it carries more fuel than the LR but gives up less volumetric space to do this. The result is that the XLR can then run BNE/SYD/MEL-PER without payload limitations while still carrying cargo!
So Qantas haven't ordered it for range and have no interest in flying it in SE Asia, rather they've ordered it because it's flexible enough to serve multiple purposes without being limited on either!
See here for the detail: https://www.analyticflying.com/p/why-qantas-ordered-the-a321-xlr-without?r=3m1jgk
Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
04 May 2018
Total posts 19
Thanks for the update, my mistake.
Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
04 May 2018
Total posts 19
But I do expect to see the A321XLR flying into DPS, NAN, POM, AKL. And possibly ADL-SIN, CNS-SIN, DRW-SIN.
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
Sure, and to DPS, NAN, POM, AKL, etc they'll be replacing B738s, so it's like-for-like. Everyone is obsessed with the stylised view of the XLR being about range when it's actually about payload.
Don't see them using QF mainline brand on CNS-SIN and SRW-SIN. All CNS and DRW international flying is on Jetstar, wouldn't expect it to change. As for ADL-SIN, not in the near future on XLR. If they wanted to, they could go in with A332 right now. The challenge though is that they've cannibalised ADL-Europe via PER.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
14 Jan 2015
Total posts 36
I'd very much like to see the seat plan ? Two very interesting things I've noticed from the renderings, firstly it looks as though there is a proper solid dividing wall between Business and Economy which would be very welcome indeed. Secondly , is there a mid cabin toilet ? United Airlines and Delta have this on their new NEO's and it helps enormously with not having to go all the way to the end of the aircraft for just 2 toilets especially when the cabin crew are out with their trolleys , and stops economy passengers going forward to use the Business Class toilet. And of course it means that there are 3 toilets in economy rather than just 2 which I'm afraid there might only be on this Qantas jet.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
13 Nov 2018
Total posts 118
Who made the executive decision not to have seat power? Change it now before they are delivered! I have been in economy on US carriers and they have power in economy as well as business class (that are ironically called first class). If I’m in business class, big chance that I have been travelling for a few days or all day and I will want power!! Qantas, WTF? Seriously, someone has a screw loose!
14 Oct 2016
Total posts 115
There's just a whole lot of decisions made with this seat that don't make sense. The only reason why some decisions were made seem to be on cost savings rather than what was best for the customers.
In regards to in seat power, the more options, the better for the customer. Good airlines would order usb-a, usb-c and a universal power sockets as sometimes people don't have the power bricks so will need the usb options, but sometimes people only have devices to use the power sockets, so having all 3 for your business travellers is just a good choice as you also never know if 1 socket fails, then the customer has no options to recharge, whereas at least having multiple sockets prevents these problems.
The decision to have a tucked away wireless charging pad is also at odds with the going IFE free as more business travellers will have to use their phones as the entertainment, so its unlikely as useful. Just doesn't appear to be a though out decision.
14 Sep 2015
Total posts 8
Really disappointing given the range and capability of these aircraft for there to be such a lacklustre J seat.
25 Feb 2015
Total posts 68
Yeah this is an incredibly disappointing, underwhelming product. That’s all I can really say.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
30 May 2013
Total posts 383
How very mediocre. And as for these 'slimline' seats in economy, why do airlines think we like sitting on what feels like an ironing board?
30 Jul 2015
Total posts 8
This has to be one of the most underwhelming business class product launches I’ve seen in a while. Such a wasted opportunity on a great new aircraft. No seatback TV even in business? They need to look to their Oneworld partner American Airlines and see what they’re doing with their XLR. These “new” Qantas business class seats look the same (or similar) as the 20 + year old 737-800s currently flying domestically (and SH international). Sadly not surprising, but this aircraft is an addition to the QF fleet I’m not remotely excited about. Just more of the same, when it could so easily have been impressive.
03 Mar 2023
Total posts 37
Agree, it's the most underwhelming brand new business class I've ever seen.
17 Feb 2020
Total posts 15
We all need to understand that Qantas is no longer a premium airline. The CEO and Board want to tell us it is, but the reality is very different, and that shows with this new offering for the future.
Their ratings over the past 12 months continue to fall, and there has been very little change to the customer experience, since the new CEO took over.
Long haul in first and business continues to be poor, with airfares that are higher than the likes of Singapore, Cathay Pacific, Qatar and Emirates as examples. The experience onboard is below par. Examples include paper towels you would find in a public toilet, no hot towels before takeoff or landing, meals and wines that are very average, and Neil’s famous salad is still served.
Look at the Business lounges in Sydney Domestic and International. They are dirty, overcrowded and offer poor food selections during the day and evening, but no firm commitment from Qantas to upgrade these two lounges.
My travel changed two years ago. I maintain platinum by flying other airlines through code share or booking directly, and domestically now fly Virgin.
Lower your expectations and realise what Qantas is now, and into the future with this new offering. An airline that’s somewhere between premium and budget, doesn’t care about its customers, and only cares about the business bottom line.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
22 Aug 2015
Total posts 56
So Brisbane to Tokyo is in one of these ridiculous seats or SYD to Japan is in a larger lay flat..... makes no sense. Ill be sticking with ANA or JAL
04 Sep 2019
Total posts 66
qantas again.......behind the 8ball when compared to its peers
but at least they saved a few bucks on this seat design
03 May 2021
Total posts 55
Unfortunately I do have to ask if Qantas I actually serious about these new planes. The a321neo having recliners is definitely disappointing as is the a220 not having any seat back screens…
28 Apr 2021
Total posts 32
David a most informative article and 'bravo' indeed for constantly referred to those who will travel in the new aircraft as "Passengers".
It would be remarkable turnaround it the top brass at Qantas would have the emotional power to do away the inappropriate word 'customer' used in various in-flight related 'ho ha' and is still used by the CSM. It is believed many feel strongly that it belittles the important and responsible position held as the manager in charge of the aircraft cabin
Also it might be a bold move by Qantas to have 16 (sixteen) Business Class seats and if they can fill them with full paying "Passengers' or those who use point to upgrade, it might avoid the freeloaders being offered a comfy flight at N/C.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1224
Businesses now use the words customers or guests deliberately because they are trying to reinforce that they are a service business and customers have choice. Passengers does not convey the choice so does not reaffirm the need to provide the best service possible.
Not sure the point you are making about freeloaders. Qantas obviously believe they can fill 20 seats with paying customers, otherwise they wouldn't have done it. If they later on reward staff or Platinum FFs with a free upgrade, I don't really mind. As a former airline employee, we were always told to never mention what we were or were not paying to other customers; I assume this edict remains.
QF
11 Jul 2014
Total posts 1024
Smart move having 20 business class seats, I could never work out why VA only had 8, with the new QF price point on business tickets this should be a winner for them.
28 Apr 2021
Total posts 32
It appears that someone as a former airline employee got well and truly indoctrinated with the word 'customer'.
Next visit to your lawyer, dentist or even doctor and being called a 'good customer' would no doubt raise an eyebrow!
How interesting it is when an airline mishap or serious incident occurs, the word "Passenger" is always used.
Case closed.
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
I'm not sure what people expect from airlines. Everyone wants cheap tickets and to get the luxury of the 1970s. It's not the 1970s though ...
In 1970 the average Australian took 0.5 sectors per year, we now take about 2.4 per year each. So instead of a niche luxury only available to the few it's now a mass market commodity. It's just another fast moving consumer good, albeit one with an incredibly high capital investment requirements. This makes it an awfully difficult business. Compare to a supermarket that survives on wafer thing margins, for Coles to earn $43.6 billion in revenue it only needs to invest about $1.3-1.5 billion a year in capital expenditure, meanwhile Qantas has to invest about $2.5-3.8billion a year in capital expenditure while earning only $22 billion in revenue.
So it's easy to critique them wanting the luxury of the 1970s but demanding to pay the cheap prices of a commoditised, homogeneous fast moving consumer good when you're not the one having to work out how to finance that $2.5-3.8billion a year in capital expenditure in a business which can burn money quicker than a furnace when things go wrong!
01 Jul 2024
Total posts 3
@eaf posted a link to a deepdive article from 'AnalyticFlying'
Having visited the page, I am shocked by the really messed up numbers there. This below is my reply to the post on AnalyticFlying.
"You most definitely haven't heard about Maximum Zero Fuel Weight.
That there's still allowance in the MTOW doesn't mean it's all for cargo.
The highest certified MZFW for the A321NEO family is 75.6t.
Using this and your hypothetical passenger weight and fuel weight,
The A321NEO true cargo will be 6.6t
The A321LR and A321XLR will be 5.6t each.
The MZFW is included in any plane certification for a reason, it's not negligible.
Any further available weight is there to take in more fuel.
Complying with the MZFW will also help you get down to or below the MLW upon reaching your destination. The highest certified MLW of the A321NEO family is 79.2t.
If you carry the full 14t cargo you specified for the A321XLR, you will have a landing weight of about 89t, 10t higher than limit. Your landing weight for the A321NEO will be 88t, 9t higher than limit.
Note that the A321LR, A321XLR will burn between 0.2-0.7t more fuel if flying the Sydney to Perth at MTOW."
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
Lol, okay. I'll leave the same reply here noting that your response intentionally misrepresents the artcle, or at best misunderstands it or hasn't actually read it in it's entirety.
Nowhere did the article argue that they'd use the entire remainder of the 14t of payload for cargo. The conclusions states that it'll carry a "meaningful cargo load". In fact, the article specifically focused on the volumetric space rather than weight, since the cargo constraint on these missions will be volumetric rather than weight. Your critique focuses on weight and the MZFW which we didn't ignore but didn't include since it wasn't relevant, why?
The purpose of the "volumetrically" framing was to compare and contrast the volumetric trade-off between the LR and XLR, since that was the binary choice. It's clear why Qantas didn't choose the standard A321neo. It would struggle to carry the required fuel (volumetrically) on a typical Brisbane/Melbourne/Sydney to Perth mission and when it could it might also suffer from payload restrictions.
So the choice was between the LR and XLR. The conclusion isn't that they'll carry 14t, but that the XLR allows them to carry more cargo than the LR. This isn't limited by the payload parameters as you seem to frame it, but by the volumetric space. The LR would be able to carry about 1x LD-56 container. Given the container has a maximum gross weight of about 1.5t, that would only allow 1.5t of containerised cargo anyway! The XLR has about 3x container positions available, so a maximum of 4.5t containerised cargo anyway. These are well within the 5.6t that you suggest is the true cargo!
So yes, we understand MZFW and MLW. FWIW, the landing weight in the flight planning assumptions we ran has the full pay load plus max cargo (3 containers) is 79t, which is ... drumroll please .... exactly MLW. That should have given you a hint :-P
The purpose of the blog isn't to over complicate but to contextualise Qantas's choice between the LR (an aircraft the know well since they operate them over at Jetstar) and the XLR. If you think the payload and volumetric cargo hypothesis is incorrect, then we're happy to hear an alternative hypothesis why they've ordered the A321XLR to replace the B737-800s!
So nowhere does it say 14t. The table is simply showing the difference between TOW and MTOW to highlight how the aircraft is over-speced on that front! It's usually relevant to actually read the article you want to critique rather than critiquing a table you misinterpreted out of context!
19 Jan 2018
Total posts 30
Once again Qantas showing zero vision in its new Business Class seats…for an airline that introduced Business Class to the world Qantas reinforces that it needs new eyes at the top instead of the Alan Joyce student Hudson who was there every step of the way during the decisions Joyce made which resulted him losing $9m bonus for damaging the Airlines reputation…Qantas’ words not mine.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
31 Jan 2016
Total posts 89
Well, back to the topic at hand A321XLR business class seats, at least these will be better than most (all) offerings in the UK/EU market for short(ish) flights in both bus and economy...
If only BA, AF et al had seats like these...just imagine...!!!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Apr 2016
Total posts 60
Brisbane to Jakarta would be great. There are a lot that go via Bali at the moment so this would be an instant success.
25 Jun 2021
Total posts 31
23 Jul 2024
Total posts 9
Except that Qantas won't be flying these on 8 hour flights to SE Asia. They're replacing B737s on domestic and Tasman flights. They've been pretty clear on that!
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