I’ve had gratis upgrades from Emirates and Air New Zealand, but never from Qantas. Having said that my strike rate for upgrades when requested is pretty good on Qantas, I’d say more than 50% on international flights which I think is OK.
Of course domestic upgrades are a completely different process but even then when one isn’t available online I’ll often waitlist and get one at the gate. I’m platinum and LTG but really that’s nothing special these days.
To be fair, I see the method to it. I do a lot of my QF travel in J (booked or with points) because I know that, even as platinum, I've got bugger all chance of sitting at the pointy end for free.
You are loyal to an airline so you can enjoy the published benefits of status.
SQ and QF are extremely protective of their forward cabins and will not simply hand out upgrades to elites because seats are empty (as opposed to flights being oversold). Even the legacy carriers in the US that used to do this have realised that this discourages passengers, elite or no, from actually paying for forward cabin seats, in either cash or points; having forward cabins which are filled with upgraded elites defeats the purpose of having them, at least from the revenue perspective.
Does it leave us with a cold feeling? Yes. Is it business plain and simple? Also yes.
There is a lot more science than most people think when it comes to upgrades from Airlines - and I would ignore the common perception that its based on anything that you are wearing, how chatty you are with the checkin or gate staff.....it all comes down to numbers and of course money
Qantas is this part of the world has a disadvantage, as its both a domestic and international carrier - if you look at SG, EK or similar, they are international airlines only, with only a very small domestic operation on their flagship brands (forget their low cost subsidiaries)
Loyalty on EK, SG, CX, etc is very different to QF - many, many QF high tier loyal customers earn their loyalty with the domestic operation, on discount fares, (and if traveling with companies, highly discounted domestic fares for large corporates), with then a few international long haul journeys, so the earn per pax ratio for a Gold, or Plat FF who earns the majority of their status on the domestic network, does not automatically translate to the same earn when you travel internationally
Compared to a high frequency traveler on SQ, or EK - who are traveling premium cabins on long haul international journies that given a massive earn to miles ratio - not all frequent flyers are the same!
This is all calculated when people ask for upgrades, or even offered upgrades - there is modeling, math and of course earn factors that are used, its often nothing to do with the checkin crew or what you are wearing that gets you into a pointy cabin on tick......the data avalaible on the booking platforms to checkin, host and gate staff is quite sophisticated, its not just "oh your a plat, upgrade granted"
Its also got a lot to do with your fare class, and what you have paid - for example if a Plat FF has booked a discount fare Economy from SYD to LHR, and a gold FF has booked a full fare economy fare on the same route, you would find the full fare would get discretionary upgrade ahead of the Plat FF - its simple revenue per seat - this has happened to me several times, with collegues traveling with me - why bump a discount fare when you can bump a full fare that is almost equal to a discount\early bird or classic fare of class above?!?!
To answer the origin question, yes SG upgrade a lot, but mostly only to PPS and PPS Solitaire members, I'm PPS solitaire and often fget bumped to F or a suite if they are available
There is a lot more science than most people think when it comes to upgrades from Airlines - and I would ignore the common perception that its based on anything that you are wearing, how chatty you are with the checkin or gate staff.....it all comes down to numbers and of course money
Qantas is this part of the world has a disadvantage, as its both a domestic and international carrier - if you look at SG, EK or similar, they are international airlines only, with only a very small domestic operation on their flagship brands (forget their low cost subsidiaries)
Loyalty on EK, SG, CX, etc is very different to QF - many, many QF high tier loyal customers earn their loyalty with the domestic operation, on discount fares, (and if traveling with companies, highly discounted domestic fares for large corporates), with then a few international long haul journeys, so the earn per pax ratio for a Gold, or Plat FF who earns the majority of their status on the domestic network, does not automatically translate to the same earn when you travel internationally
Compared to a high frequency traveler on SQ, or EK - who are traveling premium cabins on long haul international journies that given a massive earn to miles ratio - not all frequent flyers are the same!
This is all calculated when people ask for upgrades, or even offered upgrades - there is modeling, math and of course earn factors that are used, its often nothing to do with the checkin crew or what you are wearing that gets you into a pointy cabin on tick......the data avalaible on the booking platforms to checkin, host and gate staff is quite sophisticated, its not just "oh your a plat, upgrade granted"
Its also got a lot to do with your fare class, and what you have paid - for example if a Plat FF has booked a discount fare Economy from SYD to LHR, and a gold FF has booked a full fare economy fare on the same route, you would find the full fare would get discretionary upgrade ahead of the Plat FF - its simple revenue per seat - this has happened to me several times, with collegues traveling with me - why bump a discount fare when you can bump a full fare that is almost equal to a discountearly bird or classic fare of class above?!?!
To answer the origin question, yes SG upgrade a lot, but mostly only to PPS and PPS Solitaire members, I'm PPS solitaire and often fget bumped to F or a suite if they are available
Last edited
by daniesut at Sep 20, 2018, 11.01 AM.
I am sorry, but this is absolutely untrue. As a PPS Club or Solitaire member for the last 10 years, I have gotten upgraded exactly once - when Y class was overbooked, they bumped a few Y to J, and a few from J (lucky me) to F. This was 6 years ago. I know SQ policy - they do not upgrade unless exceptional reason. Same as my experience in QF as Plat. Not saying I like it, but it is what it is.
I accept that a lot of maths sits behind QFs approach, but I am not certain that the question that is being answered by that maths is the right one.
As a very simple example, having sampled the A300 business class product, if I am on that aircraft I will typically buy a Flexi fare in economy to reduce the points required to upgrade. This typically doubles my cash fare. QF would be hard pressed to know that is my motivation as opposed to a need for flexibility (especially since sometimes that is my motivation).
Now, had I not been up front before would I be so inclined to spend more for an increased opportunity to be there? Not to mention that my past experience influences my purchase decision on international flights where I typically will fly business.
QF is gambling that my past experience doesn’t impact my current and future behaviour. I say that they lose that bet.
I am a 7 year Qantas Platinum and LTG, have never had a no-points upgrade from them but have been upgraded by British Airways (full flight) and Emirates (a couple of times once both me and my wife to First) they even upgraded my daughters from Economy to Business.
Qantas not great at doing this unless you are higher than platinum. Have been upgraded on CX when I was just gold not platinum. Even in economy CX crew came and thanked me for being a Oneworld frequent flyer. Only upgrade on Qantas was to business when flying to Melbourne on the Dreamliner came online last year.
With regards to SQ, have no personal experience but a close friend who lived in Singapore for many years and flown them a lot doesn't get any upgrades. He has now made the choice and shifted back to flying QF and CX.
SQ is horrible for upgrades, even as PPS from memory ive been upgraded 2 or 3 times in 9 years of travel with them, even when i asked they always had an excuse not to. A few times i would peak through the curtain into the F cabin and it was never full which only added to the disappointment. I have heard a few colleagues mention that CX is generous with upgrades.
There is a lot more science than most people think when it comes to upgrades from Airlines - and I would ignore the common perception that its based on anything that you are wearing, how chatty you are with the checkin or gate staff.....it all comes down to numbers and of course money
Qantas is this part of the world has a disadvantage, as its both a domestic and international carrier - if you look at SG, EK or similar, they are international airlines only, with only a very small domestic operation on their flagship brands (forget their low cost subsidiaries)
Loyalty on EK, SG, CX, etc is very different to QF - many, many QF high tier loyal customers earn their loyalty with the domestic operation, on discount fares, (and if traveling with companies, highly discounted domestic fares for large corporates), with then a few international long haul journeys, so the earn per pax ratio for a Gold, or Plat FF who earns the majority of their status on the domestic network, does not automatically translate to the same earn when you travel internationally
Compared to a high frequency traveler on SQ, or EK - who are traveling premium cabins on long haul international journies that given a massive earn to miles ratio - not all frequent flyers are the same!
This is all calculated when people ask for upgrades, or even offered upgrades - there is modeling, math and of course earn factors that are used, its often nothing to do with the checkin crew or what you are wearing that gets you into a pointy cabin on tick......the data avalaible on the booking platforms to checkin, host and gate staff is quite sophisticated, its not just "oh your a plat, upgrade granted"
Its also got a lot to do with your fare class, and what you have paid - for example if a Plat FF has booked a discount fare Economy from SYD to LHR, and a gold FF has booked a full fare economy fare on the same route, you would find the full fare would get discretionary upgrade ahead of the Plat FF - its simple revenue per seat - this has happened to me several times, with collegues traveling with me - why bump a discount fare when you can bump a full fare that is almost equal to a discountearly bird or classic fare of class above?!?!
To answer the origin question, yes SG upgrade a lot, but mostly only to PPS and PPS Solitaire members, I'm PPS solitaire and often fget bumped to F or a suite if they are available
Last edited
by daniesut at Sep 20, 2018, 11.01 AM.
I am sorry, but this is absolutely untrue. As a PPS Club or Solitaire member for the last 10 years, I have gotten upgraded exactly once - when Y class was overbooked, they bumped a few Y to J, and a few from J (lucky me) to F. This was 6 years ago. I know SQ policy - they do not upgrade unless exceptional reason. Same as my experience in QF as Plat. Not saying I like it, but it is what it is.
Yep i agree, ive had the same experience, ive fallen short a few times in obtaining Solitaire and yet 2 or 3 upgrades in 8 years. They do not like upgrading it seems, maybe its because they face little or no competition on the SYD - SIN route???
SQ are not known for handing out upgrades. In saying that, the 3 or 4 times a year I do travel with them in Business class, it has always been pretty chockers!
VA on the other hand, have upgraded me at the gate three times this year (domestic). On one of those, it was clearly for op reasons but the other two, Y was by not means 100% full so not what the reasoning was
I don't expect it but it is a nice treat. The sense of entitlement amongst some FF never ceases to amaze me...
Again it comes back to a number of factors - and without insulting anyone, there are frequent travelers and then there are "Frequent Travelers"...
SQ do give out upgrades and they give them to travelers that are 1. - travel a lot in Business or above (hence to get to PPS Sol, you can only travel Business and above), 2. people who travel on FULL paying fares - not the "ultra super discount lite fare" on some travel website you booked 6 months ahead
1. - for a carrier like SQ, with no domestic network to earn loyalty, a "Frequent Traveler" is 2-3 mid to long haul flights per month - (likely meaning you are based in Asia), in business or above - your revenue per pax is 15-20K USD a month - Silk and Scoot don't count!
2. Many corporate deals and people that travel for leisure, are not booking full standard fares, they are on discount, Business "lite", special deals, etc - very few people book full fare business seats, unless you are traveling at short notice, or must make that particular flight.
When you are assessed for an upgrade, if you paid a full Business fare, its not that far from a First or suite fare, therefore the revenue per seat and revenue per mile percentage is very small - make little difference to the operator
I do about 2 mid to long haul's a month with SQ (US and Europe), sometimes 3-4, I'm based in Singapore and PPS Solitaire - depending on the plane - majority of my travel is booked at least 2 weeks out from departure and always in Business on a standard fare (allows flexability), I generally get a First upgrade every other month when I'm on a 777, or a suite if its a 380..im on high yield routes (SIN-LHR-SIN, SIN-LAX-SIN, SIN-MEL-SIN, etc
Discretionary upgrades have "science" and ultimately revenue behind them - if you want more of a "guaranteed" upgrade, book ahead and use points, its that simple!
aggie57
aggie57
QF
Member since 04 Apr 2014
Total posts 136
I’ve had gratis upgrades from Emirates and Air New Zealand, but never from Qantas. Having said that my strike rate for upgrades when requested is pretty good on Qantas, I’d say more than 50% on international flights which I think is OK.
Rufus1
Rufus1
Member since 04 Dec 2013
Total posts 70
To be fair, I see the method to it. I do a lot of my QF travel in J (booked or with points) because I know that, even as platinum, I've got bugger all chance of sitting at the pointy end for free.
watson374
watson374
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 17 Aug 2012
Total posts 1,285
You are loyal to an airline so you can enjoy the published benefits of status.
SQ and QF are extremely protective of their forward cabins and will not simply hand out upgrades to elites because seats are empty (as opposed to flights being oversold). Even the legacy carriers in the US that used to do this have realised that this discourages passengers, elite or no, from actually paying for forward cabin seats, in either cash or points; having forward cabins which are filled with upgraded elites defeats the purpose of having them, at least from the revenue perspective.
Does it leave us with a cold feeling? Yes. Is it business plain and simple? Also yes.
daniesut
daniesut
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 15 Sep 2016
Total posts 43
There is a lot more science than most people think when it comes to upgrades from Airlines - and I would ignore the common perception that its based on anything that you are wearing, how chatty you are with the checkin or gate staff.....it all comes down to numbers and of course money
Qantas is this part of the world has a disadvantage, as its both a domestic and international carrier - if you look at SG, EK or similar, they are international airlines only, with only a very small domestic operation on their flagship brands (forget their low cost subsidiaries)
Loyalty on EK, SG, CX, etc is very different to QF - many, many QF high tier loyal customers earn their loyalty with the domestic operation, on discount fares, (and if traveling with companies, highly discounted domestic fares for large corporates), with then a few international long haul journeys, so the earn per pax ratio for a Gold, or Plat FF who earns the majority of their status on the domestic network, does not automatically translate to the same earn when you travel internationally
Compared to a high frequency traveler on SQ, or EK - who are traveling premium cabins on long haul international journies that given a massive earn to miles ratio - not all frequent flyers are the same!
This is all calculated when people ask for upgrades, or even offered upgrades - there is modeling, math and of course earn factors that are used, its often nothing to do with the checkin crew or what you are wearing that gets you into a pointy cabin on tick......the data avalaible on the booking platforms to checkin, host and gate staff is quite sophisticated, its not just "oh your a plat, upgrade granted"
Its also got a lot to do with your fare class, and what you have paid - for example if a Plat FF has booked a discount fare Economy from SYD to LHR, and a gold FF has booked a full fare economy fare on the same route, you would find the full fare would get discretionary upgrade ahead of the Plat FF - its simple revenue per seat - this has happened to me several times, with collegues traveling with me - why bump a discount fare when you can bump a full fare that is almost equal to a discount\early bird or classic fare of class above?!?!
To answer the origin question, yes SG upgrade a lot, but mostly only to PPS and PPS Solitaire members, I'm PPS solitaire and often fget bumped to F or a suite if they are available
reno
reno
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 20 Sep 2013
Total posts 317
I may be P1 but find QF rather generous with up grades including over sale up grades.
34manu34
34manu34
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 02 Mar 2018
Total posts 17
Have been up graded few times with CX (Gold only), even with Madame... (And kids staying in Y)
Pc
Pc
Member since 13 Mar 2018
Total posts 3
There is a lot more science than most people think when it comes to upgrades from Airlines - and I would ignore the common perception that its based on anything that you are wearing, how chatty you are with the checkin or gate staff.....it all comes down to numbers and of course money
Qantas is this part of the world has a disadvantage, as its both a domestic and international carrier - if you look at SG, EK or similar, they are international airlines only, with only a very small domestic operation on their flagship brands (forget their low cost subsidiaries)
Loyalty on EK, SG, CX, etc is very different to QF - many, many QF high tier loyal customers earn their loyalty with the domestic operation, on discount fares, (and if traveling with companies, highly discounted domestic fares for large corporates), with then a few international long haul journeys, so the earn per pax ratio for a Gold, or Plat FF who earns the majority of their status on the domestic network, does not automatically translate to the same earn when you travel internationally
Compared to a high frequency traveler on SQ, or EK - who are traveling premium cabins on long haul international journies that given a massive earn to miles ratio - not all frequent flyers are the same!
This is all calculated when people ask for upgrades, or even offered upgrades - there is modeling, math and of course earn factors that are used, its often nothing to do with the checkin crew or what you are wearing that gets you into a pointy cabin on tick......the data avalaible on the booking platforms to checkin, host and gate staff is quite sophisticated, its not just "oh your a plat, upgrade granted"
Its also got a lot to do with your fare class, and what you have paid - for example if a Plat FF has booked a discount fare Economy from SYD to LHR, and a gold FF has booked a full fare economy fare on the same route, you would find the full fare would get discretionary upgrade ahead of the Plat FF - its simple revenue per seat - this has happened to me several times, with collegues traveling with me - why bump a discount fare when you can bump a full fare that is almost equal to a discountearly bird or classic fare of class above?!?!
To answer the origin question, yes SG upgrade a lot, but mostly only to PPS and PPS Solitaire members, I'm PPS solitaire and often fget bumped to F or a suite if they are available
I am sorry, but this is absolutely untrue. As a PPS Club or Solitaire member for the last 10 years, I have gotten upgraded exactly once - when Y class was overbooked, they bumped a few Y to J, and a few from J (lucky me) to F. This was 6 years ago. I know SQ policy - they do not upgrade unless exceptional reason. Same as my experience in QF as Plat. Not saying I like it, but it is what it is.
Steve987
Steve987
Member since 23 Feb 2015
Total posts 268
I accept that a lot of maths sits behind QFs approach, but I am not certain that the question that is being answered by that maths is the right one.
wawanderer
wawanderer
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 19 Jul 2017
Total posts 12
I am a 7 year Qantas Platinum and LTG, have never had a no-points upgrade from them but have been upgraded by British Airways (full flight) and Emirates (a couple of times once both me and my wife to First) they even upgraded my daughters from Economy to Business.
mushmush
mushmush
Singapore Airlines - The PPS Club
Member since 14 Nov 2013
Total posts 40
Qantas not great at doing this unless you are higher than platinum. Have been upgraded on CX when I was just gold not platinum. Even in economy CX crew came and thanked me for being a Oneworld frequent flyer. Only upgrade on Qantas was to business when flying to Melbourne on the Dreamliner came online last year.
With regards to SQ, have no personal experience but a close friend who lived in Singapore for many years and flown them a lot doesn't get any upgrades. He has now made the choice and shifted back to flying QF and CX.
SQ is horrible for upgrades, even as PPS from memory ive been upgraded 2 or 3 times in 9 years of travel with them, even when i asked they always had an excuse not to. A few times i would peak through the curtain into the F cabin and it was never full which only added to the disappointment. I have heard a few colleagues mention that CX is generous with upgrades.
mushmush
mushmush
Singapore Airlines - The PPS Club
Member since 14 Nov 2013
Total posts 40
There is a lot more science than most people think when it comes to upgrades from Airlines - and I would ignore the common perception that its based on anything that you are wearing, how chatty you are with the checkin or gate staff.....it all comes down to numbers and of course money
Qantas is this part of the world has a disadvantage, as its both a domestic and international carrier - if you look at SG, EK or similar, they are international airlines only, with only a very small domestic operation on their flagship brands (forget their low cost subsidiaries)
Loyalty on EK, SG, CX, etc is very different to QF - many, many QF high tier loyal customers earn their loyalty with the domestic operation, on discount fares, (and if traveling with companies, highly discounted domestic fares for large corporates), with then a few international long haul journeys, so the earn per pax ratio for a Gold, or Plat FF who earns the majority of their status on the domestic network, does not automatically translate to the same earn when you travel internationally
Compared to a high frequency traveler on SQ, or EK - who are traveling premium cabins on long haul international journies that given a massive earn to miles ratio - not all frequent flyers are the same!
This is all calculated when people ask for upgrades, or even offered upgrades - there is modeling, math and of course earn factors that are used, its often nothing to do with the checkin crew or what you are wearing that gets you into a pointy cabin on tick......the data avalaible on the booking platforms to checkin, host and gate staff is quite sophisticated, its not just "oh your a plat, upgrade granted"
Its also got a lot to do with your fare class, and what you have paid - for example if a Plat FF has booked a discount fare Economy from SYD to LHR, and a gold FF has booked a full fare economy fare on the same route, you would find the full fare would get discretionary upgrade ahead of the Plat FF - its simple revenue per seat - this has happened to me several times, with collegues traveling with me - why bump a discount fare when you can bump a full fare that is almost equal to a discountearly bird or classic fare of class above?!?!
To answer the origin question, yes SG upgrade a lot, but mostly only to PPS and PPS Solitaire members, I'm PPS solitaire and often fget bumped to F or a suite if they are available
Yep i agree, ive had the same experience, ive fallen short a few times in obtaining Solitaire and yet 2 or 3 upgrades in 8 years. They do not like upgrading it seems, maybe its because they face little or no competition on the SYD - SIN route???
ausJCP
ausJCP
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Aug 2014
Total posts 132
BJ01
BJ01
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 07 Dec 2015
Total posts 57
SQ are not known for handing out upgrades. In saying that, the 3 or 4 times a year I do travel with them in Business class, it has always been pretty chockers!
daniesut
daniesut
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 15 Sep 2016
Total posts 43
Again it comes back to a number of factors - and without insulting anyone, there are frequent travelers and then there are "Frequent Travelers"...
SQ do give out upgrades and they give them to travelers that are 1. - travel a lot in Business or above (hence to get to PPS Sol, you can only travel Business and above), 2. people who travel on FULL paying fares - not the "ultra super discount lite fare" on some travel website you booked 6 months ahead
1. - for a carrier like SQ, with no domestic network to earn loyalty, a "Frequent Traveler" is 2-3 mid to long haul flights per month - (likely meaning you are based in Asia), in business or above - your revenue per pax is 15-20K USD a month - Silk and Scoot don't count!
2. Many corporate deals and people that travel for leisure, are not booking full standard fares, they are on discount, Business "lite", special deals, etc - very few people book full fare business seats, unless you are traveling at short notice, or must make that particular flight.
When you are assessed for an upgrade, if you paid a full Business fare, its not that far from a First or suite fare, therefore the revenue per seat and revenue per mile percentage is very small - make little difference to the operator
I do about 2 mid to long haul's a month with SQ (US and Europe), sometimes 3-4, I'm based in Singapore and PPS Solitaire - depending on the plane - majority of my travel is booked at least 2 weeks out from departure and always in Business on a standard fare (allows flexability), I generally get a First upgrade every other month when I'm on a 777, or a suite if its a 380..im on high yield routes (SIN-LHR-SIN, SIN-LAX-SIN, SIN-MEL-SIN, etc
Discretionary upgrades have "science" and ultimately revenue behind them - if you want more of a "guaranteed" upgrade, book ahead and use points, its that simple!
jared7825
jared7825
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 02 Feb 2018
Total posts 30
I upgraded both ways earlier this year in April as a Gold on the way over and returning as a Plat