Airbus: long-range A350 flights a niche market with premium price
By David Flynn, November 30 2017
Not sure you want to spend 20 hours on a non-stop Qantas flight from Sydney to London or Melbourne to New York?
You'll have no argument from Airbus, with the company behind the globe-striding ultra-long range A350 agreeing this is a very much a "niche market".
“Ultra-long haul is a complicated beast, it is a niche market," Iain Grant, Airbus' vice-president for the Pacific region, admitted to Australian Business Traveller during a media briefing in Sydney.
"Do you really want to be in a seat for 20 hours? How many people would do that? There are mixed views on whether you are willing to go ultra-long haul or not, but we definitely see that as more of a premium market."
All the same, Airbus is tossing its hat into the long-distance ring as Qantas plots direct flights from 2022 from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to London, New York and potentially Brazil and Capetown.
“We are very excited about the Sydney-London project," Grant says. "We are heavily involved with all of the teams (at Qantas). We are bringing in our A350-900ULR which is going to do the Sydney-London mission and we are very comfortable with that, and we will continue to work with them to meet their requirements."
Airbus is up against Boeing's 777X – specifically the 777-8 – in what Qantas has dubbed 'Project Sunrise', with both companies working to extend the range of their respective jets to meet Qantas' demands while also carrying around 300 passengers, which the airline has pegged as the magic number for maximum revenue over these long range routes.
The A350-900ULR is the same long-legged jet which Singapore Airlines will use to restart non-stop flights to New York and Los Angeles in the second half of 2018 – using a premium two-class configuration tipped to be business class and premium economy – and is also on the radar of Air New Zealand for direct flights between Auckland and New York.
However, Grant wouldn't be drawn on the likelyhood of Airbus resurrecting plans for the smaller Airbus A350-800 as a "compact" ultra-long range jet for Qantas and other potential ULR customers.
"We don’t want to comment on our particular discussions with (Qantas)," Grant said. "We are very happy with the A350-900ULR that is coming out.”
Earlier this week Qantas CEO Alan Joyce – in London for the opening of the airline's new London Heathrow lounge – told Flightglobal that Airbus was "saying they may" consider an A350-800ULR if the A350-900ULR couldn't make the distance.
Airbus originally offered the A350 in three versions – the -800, -900 and -1000 – but put the A350-800 on ice due to lack of interest from airlines.
A similar fate befell the Boeing 787-300, although some see the seeds of the littlest Dreamliner-that-never-was could flower into the Boeing 797, which Qantas is eyeing for domestic and possibly Asian flights from the mid-2020s.
David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Dec 2011
Total posts 95
Yes Please I'll be in that. Get in at EL out at LHR. But it will depend on comfort, I can't imagine doing it in economy, PE or better still business. But I would imagine that they will want a premium for it.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
06 Apr 2011
Total posts 106
Interesting article, thanks, David - but the last 4 paras appear to have been repeated...
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
1. Ooops - rapid-fire editing mistake!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
06 Apr 2011
Total posts 106
Nothing, I read them twice & enjoyed them both times...lol
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 May 2012
Total posts 134
I can't wait. What's not to love about lazing about on a plane in J (minimum) for 20 hour? Me time to the max! No phone, no stress, great booze, plenty of TV to catch up on.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Perhaps Qantas should market these flights as the "Bingefest Express"..?
12 Sep 2016
Total posts 1
Correct me if I’m missing something but why would Qantas need an ULR aircraft to fly to Cape Town? The distance between Cape Town and Sydney is 11,000 kilometres. The range of the 787 is 14,800.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Jacksonrt26:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 464
How can an A350/800 be a 300 passenger ULR aircraft, given it would be smaller than a 789 ?
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Well that's the thing, isn't it – Airbus rates the A350-800 for "276 passengers in a typical three-class cabin", so some compromises going to have to be made if an A350-800ULR becomes a reality.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@David:
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Not sure you've got a "more updated" spec there FLX1, considering my "276 passengers in three class cabin" comes from the Airbus website while the image you've linked is labelled "FlightGlobal 2010"...
13 Mar 2014
Total posts 27
Reading between the lines of this and other Airbus comments on Qantas' Project Sunrise plans, AIrbus' position seems to be the standard A350-900ULR is basically all Airbus will offer and won't commit to much than that to meet the Qantas demands of full payload, passengers and extended range. Sunrise is a niche within a niche.
18 Oct 2015
Total posts 27
Qantas are just greedy in this regard, ULH should be aimed at less people for a higher price. Other factors such as restroom comfort, catering and general customer hygiene need to be considered, instead of just $$$.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
13 Jan 2015
Total posts 580
Yes i agree. I think the way SQ plan with J and W seats making it like 200 people max on A359ulr it covers those who can't afford J without compromising on too much space. Personally i would only ever do in J but W is workable for people who can sleep in an upright seating position.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
On a purely person basis I'd tend to agree with suggestions that a premium config - four proper first class suites, a stack of business class seats and a slew of premium economy seats with decent legroom - would be the way to go. Of course, none of us have the mighty spreadsheet which Qantas would be using to determine profitability.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
13 Jan 2015
Total posts 580
I can accept that there would be no F but what is unacceptable is any form of Y seating...also W should be provided with 42inch pitch and not 38...
27 Mar 2014
Total posts 39
I think I said before Qantas can bully government's here in Australia in to getting their own way, doesn't mean they can put out demands for small numbers of planes and get everything they want from global aircraft manufacturers... We'll see...
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
13 Jan 2015
Total posts 580
lol they pretending to be like EK and the A380
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
02 Dec 2017
Total posts 1
QANTAS is testing the market with the ULH PPH/LHR and would be wise to see the response to that before expanding to SYD/LHR. The unknown is the demand for a premium service. I'm sure QANTAS is doing serious research on that and watching PPH/LHR uptake after the novelty of that service has worn off.
23 Oct 2014
Total posts 238
300 seats is a lot to fill daily if it’s only BUS and PE.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Jul 2015
Total posts 10
I wonder how crew (cabin and pilots) rotations will work? Will they need 3 x 8hr shifts? Is in-flight rest considered good enough to work that long on a flight?
Anyone know how it works on the Perth-London route? The 787 has 6 beds for cabin crew and 2 for pilot rest which is seemingly good enough for 17hrs. Will the extra 3hrs make a difference?
15 Aug 2014
Total posts 9
It's Cape Town, not Capetown!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 May 2015
Total posts 54
Surely if they are buying the 787 they would buy the 777-8/9 as they are the same family?
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