Hi, as a P1 traveler too, I see all the time Qantas Staff, and even Jetstar staff in uniform in Bus when I'm in row4 on dom flights....you cant tell me 4 Jetstar flight crew in Bus on a MEL-SYD peak flight were in no show seats - why not offer me or a Plat in the first or second rows in economy an upgrade to show support for our loyalty rather than just a ipad case for the millions of miles we need to rack up to keep P1...
Hi Daniesut,
Unfortunately, as much as your status as P1 is valued, EBA's must be adhered to.
‘Must-ride’ or confirmed duty/positioning crew have priority over customers with QF FF points. Staff travelling for leisure have no priority over revenue passengers and will only get a’bum-on-seat’ in Y-class if there is a spare seat after everyone else.
The idea that people (who have not paid for an upgrade seat) object to staff on duty getting a decent seat before their next gig to me seems a bit 'entitled' to say the least.
there are a lot of variables which come to play when upgrades are awarded, there may not be enough catering for a commercial passenger for example if the upgrade was awarded. However, putting a staff member without catering in business would be more of an ideal situation and less of a bad reputation for the airline as the staff member has no basis for complaint. This is only one of many different variables. One of the biggest reasons a staff member is in business over an upgrade is due to a no show passenger. staff members are often only given a seat moments before door closure.
Agree with the second part of your post, disagree with the first. No reputational risk in giving a paying customer a business seat if they are told economy food will still be forthcoming!
I can assure you that Qantas Staff have the lowest priority. I myself as a Qantas employee have been disallowed my Business/First upgrade due to it being booked my full fair and Fequent Flyers.
Also that seat may be listed as "Staff Only" Mean that apart of the seat is non funcioning.
Last editedby Joseph.FK at Oct 03, 2017, 11:59 PM.
I think what people need to understand is there are different types of Staff Travel.
Leisure Staff travel - where staff are on holidays and travelling as a staff benefit or discounted fare for staff and family, - this usually comes at the lowest priority and usually on Standby.
Essential Staff travel - where staff are on Duty, and are travelling to another base to either start or complete a flight. This is usually given high priority over and upgrades as they must travel. Failure to travel can mean cancellations or delays to another flight.
At the end of the day, an airlines operations will be put as priority over paying pax.
Ok as a P1 with a wife who is a Qantas FA I can tell you that unless it's operational, staff are the last thing loaded. If they have to get crew to another location to operate then they have priority, as they should. I'd be less than happy if my flight was delayed because they were unable to get staff to the correct airport on time. As for them being in J after your request was knocked back, more than probably they were in Y and a last minute no show meant they were pushed forward, likely after you had already boarded.
One of the biggest reasons a staff member is in business over an upgrade is due to a no show passenger. staff members are often only given a seat moments before door closure.
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That'ss how it happened for me...had to sprint across the terminal from the qf service desk and i was last to board
ALL airlines worldwide have a 'load' hierarchy', which can and does differ between airlines. However, it will look something along the following lines - dependent on frame, route, cabin etc:
First Class: (where offered)
Paid First Class revenue pax
Some carriers reserve a seat (or two) for pilot rest space on every flight
Confirmed space Duty Travel - Staff (Board, CEO, senior execs, sometimes partner airline CEO's)
Contra / PR / Contest travel (rare, but does occur)
First Class points-based redemption awards
Upgrade Requests (based on pax status tier order - highest to lowest) and often, based on lower cabin fare)
Complimentary or courtesy upgrades (VIP or highly prominent individuals)
(Own) Staff travel - duty travel will take preference over leisure travel (latter is extremely rare on QF)
Please note that the above list is not exhaustive and is indicative only. It will vary between airlines and policies .. as well as being independent of every flight. Remember, some US carriers offer 'confirmed upgrades to their highest tier flyers, others do not - but the list is generally indicative of how most airlines work.
As a QF staff member, who uses staff travel occasionally domestically, however also a QFFF silver member, I can assure you all on a Staff travel ticket, We are the LAST on and LAST for an upgrade.
I seldom use my Staff travel, especially during peak times (school holidays Special events i.e. GF).
Duty staff for operational requirements are another story.
If we travel on Duty, the circumstances around our travel will dictate if we are a must go or not.
If I'm heading to Syd for meeting or school, Ill be on standby, If I'm sent for an Aircraft recovery i.e. AOG Engine change Ill be must go.
We may be dressed in uniform, other times in our casual clothes.
We are not allowed to access lounges, accept kits and pj's and must be last offered catering often missing out.
QFFF points and status credits are not earned on any form of staff/duty travel.
Qantas is all about our customers first, as it should be.
DCW I like your attitude and that's certainly the way things should be from a customer perspective however I do remember a particular domestic flight where I and the other three members of my family were full fare QF J passengers (booked in advance, not last minute) on a morning flight in an A330. The J cabin had half a dozen uniformed Jetstar cabin crew seated in it, obviously paxing on duty travel. Some time after they were served the hot breakfast and no food coming near us, I asked a flight attendant when our breakfast would arrive. I was told they had none left. They gave all the breakfasts to staff (even serving them first) and not to the full fare passengers!
Another tale - on a packed QF evening flight the person boarding immediately in front of me visibly had way in excess of the carryon allowance. When I challenged the FA who checked my boarding pass I was told that the person was 'staff' so there was not a problem. I even got attitude about the way the response was delivered.
As for lounge access by staff, I know well a former cabin training manager who was promoted within QF and advised that one of the perks that came with the promotion is lounge access on both duty and private travel....
The idea that people (who have not paid for an upgrade seat) object to staff on duty getting a decent seat before their next gig to me seems a bit 'entitled' to say the least.
It should always be customers before staff.
It's never a good look when an upgrade is knocked back only to see a staff member in a higher cabin.
there are a lot of variables which come to play when upgrades are awarded, there may not be enough catering for a commercial passenger for example if the upgrade was awarded. However, putting a staff member without catering in business would be more of an ideal situation and less of a bad reputation for the airline as the staff member has no basis for complaint. This is only one of many different variables. One of the biggest reasons a staff member is in business over an upgrade is due to a no show passenger. staff members are often only given a seat moments before door closure.
Agree with the second part of your post, disagree with the first. No reputational risk in giving a paying customer a business seat if they are told economy food will still be forthcoming!
Agree. Most people care about the extra space rather than the catering.
as an ex employee who is eligible for J if available, I now only book J using FF points because these days your rarely get upgraded due to so many pax using points. The complaint problems mentioned here would be solved if they just did away with upgrades using points and if you want business you have to actually pay the airlines money for it!!lol
My wife has 31 years with airline and has a good on load category for J/P. And yes points upgrades from commercials pax always beat us. Duty travel gets priority, but if the cabin is booked, then they too can end up in Y. But yes they get priority over commercial pax if on duty travel. (EBA) We hardly ever use staff travel overseas as its just too hard. If you do, you've got to pick your time. EK is much better for Europe. We get J on them. I've used it to the States, but used points to get home. Did get to Vancouver and back last August on the 75/76 okay. But it was at the end of the season. As for school holidays, well that is not an issue for us. But I know of times when there are 300-400 staff in LA trying to get home. About to head to Europe on points in J/P using CX/BA/EK.
DCW I like your attitude and that's certainly the way things should be from a customer perspective however I do remember a particular domestic flight where I and the other three members of my family were full fare QF J passengers (booked in advance, not last minute) on a morning flight in an A330. The J cabin had half a dozen uniformed Jetstar cabin crew seated in it, obviously paxing on duty travel. Some time after they were served the hot breakfast and no food coming near us, I asked a flight attendant when our breakfast would arrive. I was told they had none left. They gave all the breakfasts to staff (even serving them first) and not to the full fare passengers!
Another tale - on a packed QF evening flight the person boarding immediately in front of me visibly had way in excess of the carryon allowance. When I challenged the FA who checked my boarding pass I was told that the person was 'staff' so there was not a problem. I even got attitude about the way the response was delivered.
As for lounge access by staff, I know well a former cabin training manager who was promoted within QF and advised that one of the perks that came with the promotion is lounge access on both duty and private travel....
Staff get a separate amount of baggage allowance for duty travel due to the fact that we have to take our work things with us and our civilian things as well.
I work for Jetstar and we don't always get sent via Qantas, more often than not we will get sent on our own airline. If we go Qantas it is because we either don't have an appropriate flight with our own airline, or we don't have flight that will get us to our destination in enough time or by the required time for us to operate our own flight, and obviously from a business point of view we as a company try not to cancel or delay flights so that is why we will go Qantas. We generally get put onto a flight last minute, sometimes we will be given literally 15 minutes to get from our own terminal to the Qantas terminal and check in and board the aircraft, which generally only leaves Business class seats available.
Also for the people that don't like getting denied a business upgrade and see us sitting in business, think about how we feel. We know that people miss out on those seats so we can get on the plane and we have to sit in our uniform and know that people look at us (apart from the obvious reason that our uniform is orange). We don't necessarily like having to deal with it but we know its a part of the job and inconveniencing one passenger is better than inconveniences 100's of passengers by delaying or cancelling a flight.
DCW
DCW
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 19 May 2014
Total posts 24
Hi Daniesut,
JKH
JKH
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 23 Sep 2017
Total posts 11
‘Must-ride’ or confirmed duty/positioning crew have priority over customers with QF FF points. Staff travelling for leisure have no priority over revenue passengers and will only get a’bum-on-seat’ in Y-class if there is a spare seat after everyone else.
patrickk
patrickk
Qantas
Member since 19 Apr 2012
Total posts 737
The idea that people (who have not paid for an upgrade seat) object to staff on duty getting a decent seat before their next gig to me seems a bit 'entitled' to say the least.
Steve987
Steve987
Member since 23 Feb 2015
Total posts 268
Agree with the second part of your post, disagree with the first. No reputational risk in giving a paying customer a business seat if they are told economy food will still be forthcoming!
Joseph.FK
Joseph.FK
Member since 03 Oct 2017
Total posts 1
I can assure you that Qantas Staff have the lowest priority. I myself as a Qantas employee have been disallowed my Business/First upgrade due to it being booked my full fair and Fequent Flyers.
highflyer
highflyer
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 10 Apr 2012
Total posts 186
I think what people need to understand is there are different types of Staff Travel.
Leisure Staff travel - where staff are on holidays and travelling as a staff benefit or discounted fare for staff and family, - this usually comes at the lowest priority and usually on Standby.
Goat Guy
Goat Guy
Member since 03 May 2017
Total posts 15
Ok as a P1 with a wife who is a Qantas FA I can tell you that unless it's operational, staff are the last thing loaded. If they have to get crew to another location to operate then they have priority, as they should. I'd be less than happy if my flight was delayed because they were unable to get staff to the correct airport on time. As for them being in J after your request was knocked back, more than probably they were in Y and a last minute no show meant they were pushed forward, likely after you had already boarded.
elchriss0
elchriss0
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 13 Jan 2015
Total posts 80
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kimshep
kimshep
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 11 Oct 2014
Total posts 412
ALL airlines worldwide have a 'load' hierarchy', which can and does differ between airlines. However, it will look something along the following lines - dependent on frame, route, cabin etc:
First Class: (where offered)
Business Class:
Premium Economy Class: (where offered)
Economy Class: (where offered)
Please note that the above list is not exhaustive and is indicative only. It will vary between airlines and policies .. as well as being independent of every flight. Remember, some US carriers offer 'confirmed upgrades to their highest tier flyers, others do not - but the list is generally indicative of how most airlines work.
parishiltons
parishiltons
Member since 18 Sep 2015
Total posts 27
DCW I like your attitude and that's certainly the way things should be from a customer perspective however I do remember a particular domestic flight where I and the other three members of my family were full fare QF J passengers (booked in advance, not last minute) on a morning flight in an A330. The J cabin had half a dozen uniformed Jetstar cabin crew seated in it, obviously paxing on duty travel. Some time after they were served the hot breakfast and no food coming near us, I asked a flight attendant when our breakfast would arrive. I was told they had none left. They gave all the breakfasts to staff (even serving them first) and not to the full fare passengers!
parishiltons
parishiltons
Member since 18 Sep 2015
Total posts 27
It should always be customers before staff.
parishiltons
parishiltons
Member since 18 Sep 2015
Total posts 27
Agree with the second part of your post, disagree with the first. No reputational risk in giving a paying customer a business seat if they are told economy food will still be forthcoming!
Agree. Most people care about the extra space rather than the catering.
gazza48
gazza48
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 10 Jun 2016
Total posts 9
as an ex employee who is eligible for J if available, I now only book J using FF points because these days your rarely get upgraded due to so many pax using points. The complaint problems mentioned here would be solved if they just did away with upgrades using points and if you want business you have to actually pay the airlines money for it!!lol
abc
abc
Member since 14 Nov 2011
Total posts 8
My wife has 31 years with airline and has a good on load category for J/P. And yes points upgrades from commercials pax always beat us. Duty travel gets priority, but if the cabin is booked, then they too can end up in Y. But yes they get priority over commercial pax if on duty travel. (EBA) We hardly ever use staff travel overseas as its just too hard. If you do, you've got to pick your time. EK is much better for Europe. We get J on them. I've used it to the States, but used points to get home. Did get to Vancouver and back last August on the 75/76 okay. But it was at the end of the season. As for school holidays, well that is not an issue for us. But I know of times when there are 300-400 staff in LA trying to get home. About to head to Europe on points in J/P using CX/BA/EK.
jwoww
jwoww
Member since 21 May 2017
Total posts 3
Staff get a separate amount of baggage allowance for duty travel due to the fact that we have to take our work things with us and our civilian things as well.