Does Qantas need first class suites on its Boeing 787 Dreamliner?

I don't really see the incentive of First Class. I think from a paid customer perspective, you get better value for money in Business. I would find that a small first class cabin will just be full of Frequent Flyer upgraders.

The difference between J and F on the A380 is larger than the difference would be on the 787 (assuming similar F). Would there be a market? Possibly. The F cabin on the A380 is commonly filled with points upgrade seats and people would probably still do this on a Dreamliner but from a QF perspective, the F cash seats were possibly a risk and they're banking on a solid enough J product to not lose top end clients. 

A resounding 'yes'!  I flew LAX-HKG on CX F.  At 15 hours I'm convinced that the amount of space, seat comfort, quality of service is not a luxury but a necessity in order to not go bonkers or require a hospital stay upon landing.  While J seats look good, a F cabin makes a huge difference on a 17 hour flight.  I've flown plenty of J flights of 10-12 hours and most were lie flats and were OK, but these ultra long hauls should offer an F cabin to those who can afford it and want it.  I mean I would never ever again voluntarily fly a more than 5 hours in economy!

I mean... They have 28 First class seat going everyday to London currently. I'd assume there would be around 5 travelling to London to revenue First tickets (the rest could be points award bookings or connecting onto EK flights in other European destinations), so I think an additional 4 First Class (At most) seats wouldn't hurt. If QF decides to re-route QF9/10 to PER-LHR (just a 'if') then 4F would probably be necessary.

I don't believe there is a necessity for a first class for the Perth-London route as an A380 with Qantas or Emirates (QF ticket) is always going to be more comfortable. Where I believe a small first class section would have merit is on potentially new North American routes, e.g. MEL-DFW & SYD-ORD. 

There should ALWAYS be first class! This was a big missed opportunity. I remember when there was first (and business) on domestic 737s ;)

In my opinion, a row of First would work. Qantas are targeting North America and London (Europe) and other destinations. Europe and NA are long haul and routes that carry premium traffic so there would be some paying customers. Plus Qantas advertises "aspirationally" but if there's nothing to aspire to (not that business class doesn't qualify for many) then I think they're missing out. Plus what a great way to use points!

For me the whole point of First is about the service... as well as the seat. For an ultra long haul you can get away with the J seat, but to have proper F service on board really matters to make the flight an event in itself, as opposed to somewhere to just get a meal and a couple of beers.

The bench mark of F class is now a high one think EY, EK, QR, SQ and carriers that can fly very high yield customers like a BA because of their global networks. F class is so much more than just first row of seats, it's exceptional product & exception service with exceptional finesse and I would say QF though good, is not in that category of exceptional. Yes I think F class is doable on ULH of any aircraft type but unless your product is going to be exceptional and you put in the effort, just stick to a very good J class. 

I see the benefit of First Class but why would you fly ultra long haul when you can fly a few medium/long haul sectors and rack up the Status Credits/Tier Points? All you need is wifi to stay productive. When you land, no matter how fantastic the seat is and how much space you have, you'll still be tired and jet lagged. Since the day is a write off, wouldn't you be better off with extra SC/TP? With medium sector flights Business class seats would be more than sufficient. Attentive service should be the hallmark of service in any cabin, not just First. 

PR here seems a little schizophrenic on one hand touting this as the new flagship, but then not providing an aspirational product.

I am a big supporter of small First Class cabins, 4 - 8 seats max. That said, to have First Class there would need to be at least a dedicated bathroom (or two) plus a galley. Either go all out or don't bother, and I think the Vantage First suite alone doesn't do enough... Qantas clearly thought the same.

Personally I think it's a huge shame not to have First Class on the Dreamliner, and as a result even though I love Qantas, I'll choose another airline on those routes. However, I know I'm in a vast minority and QF have clearly done the math and realised they can't make it work.

I think it's safe to say though that anyone saying that they can't see the difference between Business and First, or justify First Class, are simply not the target market for the product.

I think a massive factor about whether an airline chooses to add a First Class cabin to new aircraft is whether they think it will be profitable or not.  Even a small First Class cabin will require more costs - higher crew complements, catering.  And I guess this is offset against how many passengers are actually prepared to pay the premium over (an already excellent) Business Class product for it.  

First - sure is a missed opportunity for Platinum and P1s. First class provides Q FFers with the opportunity to use some points which otherwise just accumulate. What else do you 'spend' them on if not on First class upgrades?

They are likely to lose some of their high yield clients ( p and p1) to airlines with f cabins where they can use points upgrades. Not only this but at present the majority of their j product is not competitive , in terms of hard product soft product and price with what else is out there. This may change with the new vantage seat although I disagree with the best in breed statement. Would you rather travel to Europe in a two abreast partly flat seat ( they always sag at the footrest) on at a380 or on a fully flat all isle access such as cx, at, at etc all of whose j product is nearly as good as qf first. I put my business in no small part to qf for award and upgrade access to f. 

I read somewhere that QF is still considering installing a small F cabin (only 1 or 2 rows) on the second wave of B787-9 once they confirm delivery of them.

I think one row of F would work, or six seats in two rows, ala CX.  A far bigger issue is the interminable terminal transfer at PER, especially coming off a non-stop from London and needing to connect to the east coast.

2 rows of PE on the 330s is more needed then 1-2 rows of F on the 787

The points put CON QF offering F are well put. The only people "aspirationally" thinking of F here seem to be potential FF upgraders. Perhaps they forget that QF is trying to run the airline as a financial business to maintain its fat bottom line. Not too sure how the economics for the airline of upgrades using available FF points stack up against real people buying those F seats with real money (or company discounts etc). Airlines based in Middle East propped up by govenrments might be able to 'subsidise' F for prestige purposes. But QF is a small airline in the world scale of things and unless the route was relatively exclusive and had rich traffic (think USA NOT RSA and Chile) it simply does not stack up (which is what the accountants likely said).

I am just short of 6ft and quite slim at 83kg but i just do not fit in the any of the current qantas seats when it comes to the lie flat configuration there is insufficient should room to lie on my back. So i would be all for first seats.

As QF deserted PER it has a lot of ground to pull back, and I have first class pax frequently utilising AONE4 fares. They will not use a J class cabin all the way to LHR - they will take the grotty little 737 to SIN and then change to the BA F cabin.

For a longhaul widebody to hv intercon F seats onboard these days is a bit like a 300-400 rooms 5* hotel with a few presidential suites.  Overall, they are mostly vacant across the yr.  1-2 presidential suites are filled on some days by the highest tier guests of the hotel frequent stay program on complimentary upgrade.  Many of them expect the upgrade to be a given but none of them are aware nor care that the space/real estate occupied by their presidential suites are usually empty and the related premium amenities+customized VIP conceirge care are 'installed'(i.e. fixed expenses and must be present & ready anytime @ short notice) but rarely utilized.  Occasionally, the presidential suites are actually booked & used by VIP guests paying full rate.

I tend to agree with the comments posted so far, first class isn't necessary with the modern business offering across the major airlines (BA excepted...its rubbish) however i disagree that the new Qantas business seat is best in class. i think VA takes the prize there with Qatar

Anyone remember the days when QF 767s had a floor to ceiling  wall between J class and a few (3 or 4?) F class seats on the other side? I flew on the J side many times and became a Platinum FF but have not flown with QF internationally for about 10 years following a couple of very bad trips including racial abuse - not to me - but to other pax by a female FA. I have used SQ or TG to/from AUS ever since and if you want to go extra long haul in F then SQ suites are the way to go.

The SQ and now TG J seats are fine, and having flown SQ from New York EWR to SIN on the all J class A340-500 (longest trip for me 19+ hours) its the only way to go unless they provide F suites on the A350 but I think that's unlikely. 19+ in Y or even PY is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. SYD-LHR would take about 21+ hours and no doubt the equipment to do this will come - but why fly for this long even in F suites? I was more than happy to fly JFK-FRA-SIN on the SQ A380 when the direct EWR-SIN flights ceased.

So I hope that you loyal QF flyers get what you wish, in the meantime I will continue with the choice of 3 or 4 SQ BNE-SIN daily flights with Asia and Europe connections, while QF has ONE BNE-SIN flight per day.

Does anyone prefer a stop over in DXB instead of SIN or BKK?

This is clearly a 'no brainer'. Of course at least one row I'd say. Qantas has the market and flight times for some potential routes which are absolutely realistic F class contenders.

After a recent experience of a last minute plane change, I personally think Qantas would be better off upgrading all their old J class seats to the new fitout so all business passengers that pay to fly in that class get a uniform product on long flights. It's not fun on the Skybed 1 angle layflat of 2003 on an overnight flight of 8 -10 hour duration! Imagine if you'd paid for first class on a new 787 and had the plane change to a 747...

In the last two years I have flown LH F on EK (777 & A380), QF (A380), BA (777), SQ (777 and A380) - both points upgrades and fully-paid fares. BA F 777 JFK to LHR had ghastly service and food and the hard product felt like J and was claustrophobic. EK MEL to LHR (A380), and ADL to DXB (777) had terrific food and privacy despite the bling, and the wonderful showers on the A380, although service is regularly disappointing on EK. QF F MEL to LAX, love the seat, hate the bed (it's bumpy), ordinary food though good service. SQ First (777) MEL to SIN, good hard and soft product although bed less comfortable than Suites; SQ suites (old style) from SIN to LHR and SIN to HKG on A380 just terrific, best night's sleep and with enough room beside the bed to get undressed (unlike the others that require a visit to the bathroom); will be flying on the 6-only new F suite A380 from SIN LHR in June and can't wait (we'll have a double cabin). SQ has Book the Cook, although I have found this variable (I was once served in F a half-frozen lamb roast!). I used to be rusted-on QF until 5 or so years ago when they lost the plot on service and quality and I had too many delayed domestic flights. Having discovered other F products has been enlightening. I pay for about 50% of the fares. QF removing F from Perth is a mistake. SQ has become my LH F carrier of choice, although I'm still looking forward to trying LH Lufthansa F at some point.