Australia to impose '4,000 per week' cap on inbound passengers

Morrison says inbound should pay for thier own quarantine as anyone wanting to return could have done so by now. Wrong. No way of getting from Canada to Australia since the first week of April. Air Canada running nothing until at least September, and I expect that to be put back again. I've made several tries to get to Australia, all cancelled. And no, I'm not wlling to fly via America (besdes, my so-far unused Business Class flight pass is only good for AC).

Why are you unwilling to fly via the USA?

Because California, the only transit point, has rampant Covid.

Outthere1000...you are quite right. I have been stuck in Germany since April with a return ticket with Singapore Airlines. Of course the flights are repeatedly cancelled, rescheduled for some weeks later and then cancelled again and the whole process repeated. At this time I am rescheduled to return to Sydney on 2 Aug. There is also no way that I will pay for 14 day quarantine once I arrive back. So at the airport, if NSW government wants to quarantine me at their cost that is ok. If they want me to pay I will refuse so I guess my quarantine will be spent in a prison cell. So we will see how much the Australian government cares about anything.. Some people posting comments on this blog have not the slightest idea about the situation that some of us wishing to return have had to face. But then this pandemic situation has allowed greedy, thieving and selfish people to find their soap box. Lots of frustrated ears.

@ GoRobin

I am not picking a side here but you do realise that they probably will make people do the following things

1. Prior to checking in at departure they will only accept pax who sign a declaration that they are aware and accept the t&c of quarantine including payment where applies. Or they can do this at the border force screening at the airport arrival, and simply turn them back if people refuses to sign (and it becomes the airlines' problem and hence it is likely the airlines rather do the screening before departure). Whatever legality of enforcement is probably covered by public health order etc, just like anyone (citizen or not) entering Australia is expected to follow the local laws.

2. People will get the bill at the end of the quarantine and they can leave without having to pay for it, as they probably give people 3-6 months to settle the bill. Non payment however, it is likely the state government will use its powers to pursue people whatever it can do, and for interstate debt it will be treated similarly to high value traffic offence or fines.

Not sure if the state government ever sell off the long term debts to private debt collectors but individual's credit rating may get a heavy battering if the private companies get their hands on it

I am merely guessing here but i had made very reasonable assumptions.

Good on you. Citizenship must be taken seriously. The vitriol on comment sites such as here and SMH right now are pathetic. The country is turning wildly insular right now. The reality is that the govt cannot stop you from arriving, nor will they try. There will be financial hardship exemptions. Any fine issued will likely be easily thrown out in court. Any attempt to raise a debt will also be challenged.

outthere1000 - If you're "not wlling to fly via America" then options to get from Canada to Australia do exist, you just don't want to take them. You should pay for your own quarantine costs on arrival.

There are flights from Canada to Australia via Hong Kong or South Korea (or at least you could two weeks ago). Both quite low risk countries. If you haven't returned by now, it's likley because you're permanently living overseas -- you can then hopefully afford the 14-day quarantine if you're relocating back to Australia. If not, I assume there are government programs to assist.

Outthere1000, you have just contradicted yourself! You said you can't get home but you actually can! It's your choice not to travel via America. I understand this but you can actually get home.

If you really wanted to come home, you'd accept 13 hours in Economy Class.

You made a choice NOT to travel home via the US & to wait to use your business class credit (despite in May/June the Northwest US having amongst the lowest infection rates) - the Australian taxpayer should not need to support your personal choices.

Because California, the only transit point, has rampant Covid. California is not the North-West.. It has one of the highest infection rates. As for other airline options, the Air Canada website (the only airline operating out of where I am) shows no options via anywhere at present, though it does show one using ANA via Tokyo in August. As for the comment about 13 hours in economy, well, it's actually 28 hours from where i am, but that's just an aside. And I'm glad people commenting here can afford to throw away a two-trip, time-limited J pass that cost over $18,000. I know I can't.

outthere1000 - I certainly empathise with your situation, saddening that many Australians on this and other forums related to this subject, probably from the the comfort of their own lounge chair and familiar surroundings, choose to make throw away comments and judgements without assessing the facts. More disturbing is young Scotty weighing in, suggesting those returning have had "many opportunities" are "choosing" to return, have "obviously delayed" therefore it's "completely understandable" to have to pay for quarantine, adds volume to the negativity towards those currently STUCK in another country, in our case turning a one month holiday into a 3+ month nightmare. Information regarding global airport closures, ours being Nairobi, is not difficult to find on a google search. Having paid tax in Australia for a combined 61 years between my wife and myself, deciding on OUR behalf to spend OUR depleted funds in a hotel, on a further 2 weeks of time theft, in an alleged democracy is a disgrace...SHAME,SHAME,SHAME

@outthere1000 - I'm in same boat as you (Canada) and am considering flying Emirates to return to Aus later this year. They have (or soon will) have 3 flights per week from YYZ-DXB with varying transit times before a flight DXB-SYD or BNE from there. A long way around I agree, but I did it last year and it was fine. Not sure if you're in YVR or elsewhere but it's something to consider to avoid USA. On the plus side, at least we're having a great summer here for once!

If you are thinking this is being paired with a more liberal exemption policy on overseas departures, you are sadly mistaken.

The ban on overseas departures can last maybe a couple more months before it just becomes an illegitimate human rights violation (the Cth Attorney-General's own website says as much). There's a lot of quiet human suffering right now as a nation of migrants cannot visit relatives overseas.

Something has to be figured out. Taiwan's system is completely reasonable for us to adopt. Hotel quarantine, regardless of payor, is completely unsustainable on a longer term basis.

I reckon they would be happy with the 50 limit. Freight plus high yielding business class passengers. Forget the rest.

We need flights to take our produce out of the country.

There are quite a few cargo only flights to/from Australia each day. On top of this Qatar saw the opportunity & took it to gain lucrative cargo business while the other airlines pulled out.

To the US, there are daily flights SYD/HNL for a number of the global delivery services such as DHL.

It would help if the Federal Govt would actually tell the whole truth, and/or the media actually look into/vet what they pick-up & publish.

There are three groups allowed into Australia by the Federal Govt however they are not talking about the largest of the three groups which make up to 70+% of passengers arriving per flight.

Scomo talks about:

# Australian citizens

#Australian permanent residents

But is conspicuously silent about the largest group (since 3rd week of April):

# close residents (aka foreign nationals) of the above two groups. This covers mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, partners, other dependents etc

It was reported that on three 'repatriation' flights into Melbourne in early June that over 60% were foreign nationals arriving as 'close relatives' of Aust citizens or permanent residents. One group (numbering 11 people) were all 'close relatives' of one Australian permanent resident who was not on any of the flights.

This third category is costing the State Govts millions and was behind the push in Qld to start charging as the NT has been doing since April. International arrivals into the NT (despite flights still coming in) dropped to near zero as people re-routed to Qld to avoid paying.

For some reason this topic is taboo for all sides of politics (scared of swing-voters tied to these nationalities perhaps?) & the media.

oops I meant July.

Seriously? A wedding is hardly an essential reason for travel.

Maybe not to you, but when you've been waiting for it for years, and consider a wedding to be one of the most important events in life perhaps you'd think differently. You don't know my circumstances.

Where have we come to in society where people think marriage is just a piece of paper that doesn't mean anything?

Or perhaps in your family a wedding happens every few years. Not everyone is in that position.

I'm prepared to pay for my quarantine when I return so it wouldn't be hurting others for me to go.

And you don't know my circumstances either. For the record, we did have a wedding of a close family member planned for earlier in March this year that would've involved lots of us travelling from multiple parts of the globe to the wedding, that was then postponed in light of the pandemic. Everyone understood it was the right and only thing for us to do. No one had a sulk and cry.

As far as the law stands at present, I invite you to point me to where it says attending a wedding is legal grounds for travel. If you feel so strongly about this I recommend you entreaty your local MP to your cause.

@ eminere

Whatever mviy's perception of the legitimacy of the reason for essential travel is for the border force to decide on what is written on the application and declaration. It is interesting that our government is stopping residents from leaving Australia For anything other than whatever “essential travel “ is but I suspect it's more to do with the expectations by many that the government bails people out when they have trouble overseas (from the Wuhan experience) as well as the costs of maintaining a quarantine (the hotel and food costs is only part of the expenses).

No point getting upset about it since there may be many other possibly “unworthy” real reasons being given approval that you and I are not aware of, whereas there is probably even more worthy reasons (family member dying within days or weeks) getting palmed off

XWu to be fair ‘ essential travel' is clearly defined on the government website.

Mviy, like in Australia and many other parts of the world weddings have been restricted to five persons for the past four months. Remember the first outbreak in NSW was 30 cases from a wedding. So even it is allowed (eg in the US) there is a huge health risk, so allow the wedding with five and have a big party later in the year or next year.

I don't believe there has been any changes on the rules for those getting permits to leave. Unfortunately for you, a wedding probably still won't be sufficient.

It will not be relaxed. There is no chance you will receive an exemption, unfortunately.

Cxflyer but then you maybe on airline queues for a seat back. In the end the flights may be business class plus cargo even in the economy cabin as is happening elsewhere.

I would not mind waiting in a queue to get back or paying for quarantine on my return if it means I could get to my immediate family member's wedding.

Having said that I would be pleasantly surprised with any relaxation on restrictions of outbound international travel.

I guess we'll see if anything's announced in the next day or two.

KW72 they tried that and 15% wouldn't follow the rules. Also there can be no visitors which are hard to police

If you were in an apartment building even something as simple as taking trash out to the common bin area could risk leading to infecting others in the building.

KW72 remember the ruby princess. They were sent to home quarantine and several hundred cases later...

Because essentially people cannot be trusted to do the right thing.

The HK system is strict, effective and humane. You don't leave the airport until tested and results available. It depends heavily on technology and requires those who test negative to do the 14 day self isolating at home and to wear a GPS tracker. If you test positive you are taken to a hospital or a government quarantine Center. The Australian hotel incarceration is a cruel blunt and ineffective method, and highly subject to human failure. Current issues in Victoria are not the fault of travellers, rather they are the fault of government and public service ineptitude.

Worth also noting, based on numbers given by the CMO two days ago, only around 0.5% of incoming travellers test positive to COVID.

Not sure international students get free accommodation. Most are stuck here with being able to leave or work. Nowhere near as rosy as you suggest.

Sorry but if you can afford the $30K or plus per year for the uni course (at least the os students im exposed to), then don't cry poverty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just my 5 cents/dinars/malaysian/singapore/hk dollars worth! At least the shekels go to Harvard Yale Columbia etc

cbourl usually it is not them who is paying it is their government/loan sharks/relatives or the jobs they had here but no longer have. Much more complicated than you suggest. Some are from wealthy families many not so.

Cdirmber a good idea but like any self-isolation idea how would you enforce the 14 days self isolation from the first to the second test. You are right it takes 7-14 days for symptoms to show and a positive result. False negatives in a symptomatic people are far too high for testing to be reliable. Of course you can catch it in transit.

If I were to be forced into a hotel for 14 days, rather then spend those 14 days in my own bedroom, a discounted per night price might be alright, but shouldn't be forced onto someone simply because a handful of others decided that the rules don't apply to them.

As for charging for hotel food. No. Just give me a fridge and a microwave in this hotel room and I'll make a delivery order from a supermarket for maybe 10% of what the hotel will charge for 2 weeks of food.

Yeah the food charge in Qld is outrageous. The accom is not so bad.

GoRobin most countries of the world have either closed borders or quarantine. There is a website with the full list. ‘Living with the virus' as you suggest is not so easy as countries or states (Texas and Florida come to mind) that have tried it have found. Hospital systems get quickly overwhelmed and not only prevent COVID people accessing proper health care but other sick people as well. ‘Managing the health issues' is being done like any other highly infectious disease for the last century or more, and that is preventing the spread through quarantine and those other measures we are getting used to.

There's nothing you can do, and it's not in violation of any law to appear at the border to enter as a citizen without money. Don't worry about it. Most they will try is a fine, which will easily be tossed in court, or to create some civil liability (debt) which again could easily be invalidated. Most likely they will just waive you through as a hardship case.

@ GoRobin

Sorry for the late reply. Didn't see your response down the list

Having previously travelled on a visa entering Australia, I am quite aware of the reluctance of several airlines to allow any pax to board on a flight to Australian ports without the paperwork (a relative was even put on hold with associated anxiety when they were unable to confirm the paperless visa when the internet server on the Department of immigration was down).

Not sure of the legality of denial of entry of the Australian citizens or residents into Australia but if the airline is faced with the possibility of responsibility of sorting out their pax denied entire and requiring repatriation flights and associated interim accommodation issues, some airlines rather not take that risk by deny boarding, and refund your monies in their own sweet time.

GoRobin apologies for being personal I was merely reflecting on the concept of ‘survival of the fittest', and what means in a practical COVID sense. And I fully agree with you on masks and I do wear them in any semi-crowded space. I don't think Australia can eliminate the virus and apologies for seeming to suggest it can. It can however manage/suppress it with public health measures such as mask wearing, and again apologies for being ‘delusional'.

The point of not having returning travellers is to empty the quarantine hotels and give time to try to get the COVID outbreak under control.

Then with the hotels emptied they can start from a clean slate with improvements to how quarantine is managed so that the problem doesn't happen again.

Now that quarantine will be user pays hopefully they will provide adequate resources to manage the quarantine. Hopefully they are considering that when deciding on pricing.

Cr not sure ‘no other country...' is correct. I can name quite a few starting with NZ. Much of the rest of the world has restrictions on incoming folk regardless of nationality.

I agree. I can tell you there are two sides to the coin, though. From my line of work, I deal with that other side, unfortunately can't say more. Ultimately, the cost really isn't a big deal and this is all just to calm the masses angry about quarantine lapses right now.

Unfortunately some keyboard warriors here will never get it. In the middle of this pandemic I've had to sell my house in the US, get my stuff shipped back, get my girls out of school, new jobs, sell cars and everything I can't take back plus organise a dog shipment that can only go to Melbourne and now it looks the dog can get back easier than we can, so stressful for the family. You just can't do this in 2 months. I will pay the flights, I am even ok to pay the quarantine....just makes no sense.

Maybe they need to deprioritize any returning Australians with a return ticket back to an overseas country, ie not returning citizens - essentially visitors. If you have a return ticket back out of Australia, you should go to the bottom of the list.

@crwilkins I 100% sympathise with your situation. I had my plans all laid out to return to Aus earlier this year and then the pandemic hit and the world came to a standstill. In the midst of this, lost my job - so no transfer home, and I am now in a legal battle which means I have to stay here for the time being. When that's settled, I'll have to sell my house, sell electronics etc, ship the rest of my stuff home all the while, trying to find a job. I cannot even begin to book flights as I have no idea on dates.

It's so easy to be judgmental on these forums but everyone's situation is unique and everyone has been impacted in some way or another by the virus. Sitting back and assuming that expats have been lazy or slow to react and return home is a thoughtless comment to make and demonstrates a lack of empathy for people's personal situations. If I could have, I would have come back months ago. For the record, I don't have an issue paying for quarantine on arrival - though confess wish I could choose my hotel.

Maybe they should introduce a tax deduction for quarantine ... wouldn't be ideal as you'd have to wait 12 months to get the money back, but could be a solution to make sure you take up residency back in Australia and aren't just a tourist.

I do feel bad for those in your position, and really sorry you're going through that. But not sure what the solution is when there are a lot of people who've just happily taken their chances overseas and now want to return to Australia for whatever reason. Hopefully we are investigating alternative arrangements for quarantining people that're more comfortable and cheaper ... but it'll be tough to make sure there is compliance. As we've seen in Melbourne, it takes just a few slip-ups to undo all the good work over the past 10 weeks.

Paying for quarantine that the government decided was compulsory is not only beyond budgets, it's beyond belief.

I'm getting so sick of this line being trotted out. Everyone's circumstances are different, for many it's just not been possible or reasonable to ‘return home' over the last few months. As if that is really a concept these days - for many people where is home exactly? You may scoff but that just demonstrates either a lack of compassion or unwillingness to consider others situations.

I'll give you an example - just this week the ICE in the US announced, totally without warning, that international students not attending in person classes in the fall semester must ‘go home' or face deportation. Most US colleges have gone largely or completely to online lectures because of COVID-19, so kids already in the US that were set up and planning to study in the US this next 6 months are in many cases all off a sudden needing to return home. Many Australians studying in the US are affected by this, right when Australia is severely limiting incoming arrivals. This sort of thing is happening all the time now, things you thought were settled just change overnight. It'll be this same for the next couple of years at this rate.

So if an Australian citizen who lives overseas has lost their job this month, or has a family member who falls ill in the next few months it is entirely their fault because DFAT warned them to return on 18th March? OK then.

Diego then that is tiger case. Their are such things as capacity limits.

Jono deaths may be minuscule but hospitalisations are not and the more COVID takes up hospital beds the fewer beds there are for the rest of us with different but equally dire illnesses. The focus on deaths is a complete furphy.

@patrickk

Well what is the solution then? As I said we can't keep locking down whenever there's a spike in cases and keep our borders shut indefinitely! Quarantine those at risk and let the rest of us get on with our lives. For most it's a mild cold. I'm not scared in the slightest if I catch this virus. I'm healthy and have a good immune system. If I have to quarantine on return from overseas travel then so be it. But the choice to travel shouldn't be anyone else's but my own

Jono the mild cold ‘for most' may be around half. The other half get quite sick with 20% in hospital. Hard to tell who is ‘at risk', half hospital folk are under 40. And still an awful lot to quarantine.

@patrickk

So 20% of the active cases in Australia now are in hospital? I have three nurses in my immediate family and they've said hospitals have never been quieter than these past 6 months.

But for the second time, will you be willing to accept these restrictions indefinitely?

Jono hospitals are quite because lockdown means people are not getting ill. As Victoria (and Texas and Florida) is showing this can get quickly out of hand and Victoria is already talking of a shortage of ICU beds. I think we will have some form of restrictions for some time yet. Much like NSW now but rave parties may be a thing of the past for the next year or so.

@patrick I accept these are your views and if you wish to follow them then that's totally up to you.

It's sad to see the airline industry on its knees and the great number of people affected by it. And those who cannot even travel for essential reasons due to further airline cancellations. I wonder if we'll look back in years to come and realise that this was the greatest overreaction of our generation? Time will tell...

Jono I don't think it is quite that grim. Hopefully in the next few months a more reliable saliva test will emerge. Once we get to less Than one per cent false negatives (Currently 20-50% depending if there are symptoms or not), then we can have a test before leaving from wherever another one on arrival then a few days home quarantine just to be sure. One per cent of 10000 coming in a day is still one hundred. We will have to accept a few more false positives and two weeks hotel quarantine just like HK. Time in hospital will go down by a few days with the newly approved drug for the very ill.

@patrickk - "Jono hospitals are quite because lockdown means people are not getting ill." - I would be interested to know if that is based on reliable statistics or merely anecdotal musings.

Laugh it is based on press reports based on reliable statistics. COVID hospitalisations are reported by most states on most days other hospitalisation data comes from quoted reports from hospitals. Google can help here.

...and also that elective surgery had been stopped for much of that time.

Patrickk - Thanks. I googled/searched but I can't find any reports saying that is a categorical fact, so was hoping you might remember where you read it. I want to quote it verbatim in something I am writing... .e.g."hospitals are quiet because lockdowns mean people are not getting ill".

If it's something you've only inferred from press reports you've read, I can't use it.

SMH April 21 by Melissa Cunningham reporting a 50% drop. A very quick google.

You mean the article that says this?

Hospitals across Australia have observed a rapid decline in patient numbers of up to 50 per cent in some hospitals alongside an alarming deterioration in cardiac emergencies.

This comes after The Age revealed last week that patients were having heart attacks in their homes as they avoided hospitals amid fears they would be burdening the healthcare system, while some chronically ill people were skipping critical medical appointments.

Because that's not the same as saying "people are not getting ill because of lockdowns".

Anyway, it's ok I don't need you to google for me, I just thought you might recall your source.

Thanks all the same.

Lough add to that ABC June 13 on the drop in flu cases. Not only vaccinations and also because of lockdown meaning fewer getting ill and needing hospitals, and the lack of elective surgery will also lead to hospitals being quite which was your original question asking for my sources.

Lough the key word in you re-quote is ‘alongside' which is quite different to ‘due to'.

Spot on RyanB

I ABN they have a right to enter Australia when theirs and others safety can be guaranteed. By air it just doesn't work. They can come by their own boat.

just add to my own words.

When I say the government pays, this could be to a certain standard / cost say equivalent of a good 3 star hotel.
I would have no objection to people contributing on top to stay in fancier hotels. Of course any hotel offering would need to be certified and staffed with the right qualified people.
The whole thing is primarily a national public health initiative, so should be funded by the Commonwealth Health department. Do it through Medicare, with a defined amount for "bulk billing" and then individuals pay the difference.

Agree 100% - the goalposts keep shuffling around on this issue.

@fadz but it doesn't make any sense. Our cities can handle 100,000's of visitors for F1 Grand Prix, Grand Finals, AUST Open etc etc but it can't handle 6500 returning Australians...across all our capitals, just doesn't make sense. There has to be 000's hotel rooms in Melbourne right now completely empty during this lockdown. Let's face it, there's no tracing to do, you're in quarantine lockdown, and tested twice........and while all the reports are of very good support and standards in quarantine, at a user pays level it still makes no sense to put these limits in place.

I feel for your son in law and hope that he can find a quick and safe way back ASAP. His situation is exactly the problem in government putting in arbitrary and ill thought out caps that fail to account for the real world.

As an Australian citizen he should have the right to return to his home

Wrong. Only immediately family members may be approved to arrive without an exemption. This is defined as a spouse, de facto partner, dependent child or legal guardian ONLY.

Source:

https://covid19.homeaffairs.gov.au/immediate-family-australian-citizen-or-permanent-resident#toc-2

The supporting documents should be the enrolment confirmation including receipts for any fees paid, as well as your German passport. Any sponsorship letters and proof of German residence, rental agreements, utility bills, etc. I think you get the idea, the more the merrier. Need to show you need to go or you'll be severely disadvantaged.

Crsbe - On the surface yours sounds like it should be an easy one for them to approve. Having said that, I agree with Patrickk's comment re providing as much evidence as possible to demonstrate a life and opportunities waiting for you there.

I've created a petition to bring attention to the plight of people in your position (and mine).

https://www.change.org/p/citizens-should-be-allowed-to-leave-australia-without-requiring-permission

Please sign and share if you agree. Thanks and best of luck.

Book your flights. Send your belongings (if applicable). Show you've given up your lease/home in Australia and ideally have evidence of your accommodation in Germany. Act as though you have the exemption. Then submit the exemption with all these documents. Explain this is a permanent relocation. They likely won't respond until just before the travel date.

cxflyer - Are you currently overseas trying to return?

No. I know of people overseas whose employment/secondment is about to wrap up and they are commenting on the potential lucky dip by the day or weeks of securing a seat back home.

Spot on, but no one in the government or bureaucracy is thinking like this nor capble of managing it. Its the Immigration Dept managing extended families of PR holders that hold sway.

I think the airlines need to take the lead.

France, Greece and other EU countrues are open to Aussies without qyarantine!!

Durieu the reason they don’t require quarantine from Australia is that their caseload is so high the off chance of an Aussie adding won’t make a difference. The reverse is a much bigger deal. Those with high caseloads welcome tourists et al from places of much lower caseloads the reverse is the exact opposite.

@goRobin....agree completely, but you only have to read the various blogs across most media and the masses in Australia just dont get the complexity of this, so politically it's a winner decision for ScoMo. Many of us living overseas take the best of Australia onto the global stage in business and education, and is in many cases why Australia has the global reputation it does to punch well above its weight. Most of us would fit into 1 of 3 categories

1) Tourists.....most would have long returned home by now, if they didn't, agree with most, shame on them.....ample flights and options were provided for them to get back as soon as Covid started

2) Australians living abroad wanting to visit home - family issues, deaths, funerals, etc....can be really tough, but probably this decision will make these trips more costly, but in this Covid environment one must question whether they really need to be made, especially if your coming from high case countries, in these cases you are really a visitor not a returning citizen

3) Australians living abroad trying to move home - this is the most complex and usually can't be done in a handful of months, selling homes, mortgages, leases, schooling, pets, cars, taxes, jobs etc.....very complex and these are the people and families hardest hit by this, as in many cases it's hard to plan flights etc until all these things are done. These are citizens legitimately returning to their home in Australia

And of course the media doesn't report this, the media just puts everyone in the same bucket because it makes a great story and leads the masses to feel that the govt has paid enough, We had ample time to get home and we expats and others have some form of entitlement, maybe it's the tall poppy syndrome....but overall it's quite sad really.

I'm calling this the Tall Poppy Surcharge™

There are also those of us who are here who have dual citizenship. Half our family here in Australia and half back home wherever that is - the UK for me. I have always gone back to the Uk every year to do my share of caring for my elderly parents. This year my dad is 87 and desperately needing my support for a period of time. I had a job lined up so that I could go and stay for a while. But how do I go when I don't know whether I will then be able to return here to my autistic son who also needs me for some of the year. For many of us life is not just in one place. There are many many complex situations like this for people. To keep me and others here against our will is actually imprisonment. I feel sick when I speak with my friends and relatives who are all able to move around Europe freely and Australia has backed itself into this hysterical fear fuelled isolation madness. Im not really sure how self righteously judging others benefits some of the people on this forum.

Lishka there is a Facebook page called CV-19 class action for caps for Aussies or some such but I don’t think they have engaged lawyers or anything. Many other countries have caps etc so it will be interesting if anybody takes it on.