Covid-19 vaccination may be mandatory for all visitors to Australia

I am from Qld and agree, NSW is also taking most of the returned Australians and as such will always be more susceptible to exposure to cases, so it is only fair NSW residents get priority.

I agree 100% as a Qlder I’m shocked that the border is closed, it reminds me of Premier Joh days when you could ring up and have your speeding fines cancelled just because you knew the right person

Joh would never have closed the state border - he understood the importance of travel and tourism to the state's economy.

John You are correct Joh would not have closed the border but not for the reason you suggest but because like Trump he really couldn’t care about people and their health. He was a crude crass populist with little concern for others except his mates many of whom ended up in gaol let’s not forget the damage he did, not only to Queensland but to his side of politics who basically haven’t been in power since, in a basically conservative state.

Agree

Agree John Phelan

Donald Trump has just this morning decreed that New York State will not receive any priority vaccine support due to the NY State Governor's decision to shut down the New York borders during the worst of that state's experience. Are you seriously suggesting that we, in Australia, should follow such a blatantly political move?

Sure, I get that NSW has shouldered more of the burden than most, but hey, it's also the natural point of entry for most overseas tourists. NSW didn't have to worry about closing borders, all our other states did that for us, to protect their own states - except for Victoria which made such a mess of hotel quarantine.

If you want Federal borders to open up uniformly so that people can leave / arrive through MEL, BNE, PER as well as SYD, then you have to be fair and ensure that each city gets some approximately equal level of protection.

The purpose of the vaccine is to allow the country to open up safely and resume life.

States such as QLD and WA deliberately and maliciously shifted the burden of quarantine, and have shown no constructive interest in reopening their borders. All for politician gain, and all whilst creating exemptions for football teams, celebrities and billionaires.

So yes they should be at the back of the queue.

KW72 I agree it is deliberate but perhaps not malicious. Remember that the south west Sydney outbreak came from one person from Victoria and there have been a number of cases of people with infections crossing into Queensland and WA and skipping quarantine. The borders are now reopening but with a degree of I would argue natural caution. And I am sure they ca source their own vaccine. By the way NSW has let in and endless stream of celebrities to self quarantine the latest being Miranda Kerr and hubby.

You mean, behind Tasmania, which hasn’t taken any internationals and was first to close their borders? 

Annual overseas travellers to Australian states (million) to Sep 2018 NSW 4.38, Vic 3.1, Qld 2.76, WA 0.97, SA 0.47, Tas 0.3, NT 0.29, ACT 0.27 

 “In July, national cabinet set a 4000 person-a-week cap on returning travellers, which comprises 350 a day (or 2450 a week) in Sydney, 525 a week in Perth and 500 a week in Brisbane. Adelaide has a 500 person cap and there are no flights into Melbourne due to the Victorian outbreak.” (From Sydney Morning Herald)  

In September “He said the government wants this number boosted to allow the return of 6,000 Australians each week, up from the current cap of 4,000. “ & “Mr McCormack said this would include a 500-person increase to arrangements in NSW, with the same increases  taking place in Queensland and Western Australia, and a 360 place increase in South Australia. “ (from SBS)  

So to some extent, after taking Vic out of the picture, SA and (shock!) WA is doing more than their fair share by proportion in the incoming cap in comparison to previous international travel prior to 2019. Mind you I am not certain if the ADF capacity included in the WA cap. And the cap actually doesn’t reflect the true incoming numbers, which is more related to people having trouble getting on to th3 incoming flights due to costs and travelling to catch the actual flights.  

What is certain, (and has been for some time) is QLD not pulling its weight on its share in accepting overseas travellers. It should be taking 1500 instead of 500 in July, and 2000 instead of 1000 in September by proportion to NSW. 

Yellow fever vaccination has never been a solid entry requirement. The border authorities couldn't refuse your entry, particularly as an Australian citizen or permanent resident, for not possessing one.

I wonder on what legal basis the Australian government could prevent a citizen from returning, who does not wish to be vaccinated against Covid-19.

Is Scomo subject to a 14-day home quarantine upon arrival in Japan, or is that only for us "peasants"?

I’m not sure if he quarantined in Japan or if they require it but he is in home quarantine on return.

I've noticed that in recent weeks prime ministers, foreign ministers and other dignitaries have quietly begun visiting foreign countries, all without needing to quarantine for 14 days (either at home or a hotel depending on the country) and yet no one points out this outrageous hypocrisy. Why can they travel with no quarantine but not us? Once again this is proof that there is an agenda behind all this, and that the rich are exempt from it.

You can bet that neither Scomo nor any foreign official will ever be required to quarantine or have a vaccine to travel. They might get a placebo swab test to make it look like they're doing something but that's about it.

Freq they actually do quarantine the PM right now is quarantining, and other ministers have throughout, and sco-mo is doing parliamentary Q time via video. An assertion is not evidence.

Are you saying Scomo is spending 14 days in quarantine before meeting anyone in Japan? I highly doubt that. The rules they make never seem to apply to themselves. I know for a fact the Hungarian foreign minister who recently visited Vietnam, Cambodia and Thailand did NOT quarantine upon entering any of these countries, even though all of them have a mandatory 14 day quarantine requirement for all arrivals.

Freq it is after the meetings he is in quarantine in Canberra right now.

The doses are counted per application - so 10m doses is sufficient for 5m.

Please do a little reading and research through reputable websites and you will quickly learn that Covid-19 is NOT just "a little flu", and it does NOT "only kill elderly people." In addition, your point that the elderly "are only a minority in our society", and what's the supposed to mean? Are you saying that because they are "only a minority" they are disposable, we can afford to let this "little flu" kill them off? This is one of the saddest and most uninformed comments I have read this week. Please PLEASE spend some time reading outside of a handful of biased uninformed blogs, your friends' Facebook comments, Fox News etc.

Stop with the fearmongering AsiaBizTraveller, yes, it's just a flu. Fox News is corporate owned and spews out the same pro vaccine propaganda as CNN, so I don't know why libtards constantly make it out to be some "conspiracy" news source, when it's basically the same thing as the liberal media.

Freq yes being a corona virus it is flu like, and yes just a flu, but a very deadly one like we get from time to time. The last one this infectious but probably not quite as deadly was 100 years ago. This one clogs up hospitals more so than kills people but 1% mortality on a big number is still a big number.

Sorry Patrick, point of order. The 1918-1920 H1N1 global pandemic (Spanish Flu) killed 50 million to 100 million people worldwide. Adjusted for population growth that would be equivalent to 400 million people today, dead!

500 million of the worlds population of 1.8 billion in 1918 were infected. That would be 2.2 billion in todays world.

The "Spanish Flu" was one of the most infectious and deadly pandemics in history. Way, way, way worse than COVID-19.

rnickey exactly my point this one is not as deadly but still clogs up hospitals, and we are not one year in yet. Without a vaccine (which I am sure we now have) who know where we would be in year three of exponential growth. When excess deaths are counted we are probably well past one million

And for the record AsiaBizTraveller, some of us choose not to read the fear mongering liberal propaganda because we know they're incredibly biased, always support the corporations and we can see through their tired lies.

I don't even need to read a CNN or BBC article as I already know what they're trying to say before I read the article; they're so predictable. If it's a vaccine article it will be 100% pro vaccine with no contrary opinions allowed.

Your assertions are laughable.

CityRail COVID-19 is a little flu like the Spanish flu was and went on to kill 50m. Not sure where your evidence is that Sinovac vaccines are inferior. The phase 3 trials are not over yet so a premature call. Now we are seeing hospital systems over run in Europe and the US with COVID cases blocking access for other medical conditions. You seem to be wishing that on Australia as you oppose both quarantine and vaccination, and rather heartlessy and incorrectly suggest only older people like me get it and die. The reality is that it can and does make people of all ages as sick as the proverbial dog.

@CityRail - I hate to appear judgmental but your post is reminiscent of the views that currently pervade a large part of the USA, prompted by the incumbent (but thankfully, soon to leave) President. 

Perhaps you would prefer to see Australia suffer the same fate as the USA (ie: losing total control of a pandemic disease) by ignoring the potential severity across the entire population? Sorry, but as an 8th generation Australian, I don't. 

None of us particularly liked being under lockdown, but it has ultimately been proven to have worked for Australia. When you look at just yesterday's infection rate of 153,000 infections within 24 hours, in the USA - then you might understand why COVID-19 is referred to as a 'pandemic'. With some adult thinking, you might also begin to realize eventually what one of the major catalysts for a change of Government in the USA was.

Please be a little kinder to your fellow Australians. After all, we do not have a Bill of Rights to protect our individual freedoms .. and perhaps, in this particular instance, that is a very good thing. Your argument for "strongly opposing mandatory vaccinations for visitors to Australia" is looking very thin. 

We make other vaccinations compulsory for various things much less dangerous than Covid. If you are an anti-vaxxer, that's OK - but don't expect to leave Australia and come back again (without quarantine). Your "right" to choose anti-vax does not cancel the rights of other Australians to remain healthy!

Nonsense John. No vaccines are compulsory in Australia for anything other than for young children in some states who wish to attend childcare.

I don't think so russell. If there's no way out (such as seeking a medical exemption) then "anti-vaxxers" simply won't travel. It's not like international travel is a necessity anyway. As we've found out over the last few months, we can't take anything for granted, and governments worldwide are now treating travel as a privilege not a right.

I don't expect international travel to ever be as easy as it once was. Unless of course, we stand united against this unfolding tyranny and say "no" to compulsory vaccination.

BTW it's ironic, because I knew 3 years ago that vaccination for travel would sometime during this decade likely become mandatory or at least, governments would do their best to try and mandate them.

Vitor I agree we should be able to leave if we are prepared to pay a business class fare to get back.

GoRobin the latest vaccine seems to have 90% efficacy which if correct and all inbound have had it and most local have had it then the chance of uncontrollable spread is zero and some more controllable/traceable spread very low. The government will then take a lower risk chance to open borders. If it doesn’t work then then we be closed again. I seem to recall in my youth lots of vaccines were mandatory to do all sorts of things like go to school and travel. I think many if not most still are.

There will be no quarantine for vaccinated travellers. Or else the vaccine is pointless. Our economy depends on people being able to travel without quarantine.

You never know John. They might still impose a quarantine even if travelers are vaccinated. Ease of travel like in the past may never return and you may need to adjust your lifestyle to not require overseas travel anymore. It's sad, but it is what it is. You've already experienced 8 months of no travel, this could easily turn into forever.

GoRobin in your scenario you are assuming that nobody else is vaccinated at either end, just me. The 10% chance of dying you refer to is actually lower without vaccination but for those  infected is closer to 1% and of course if most are vaccinated the chance of catching (and dying or even being hospitalised) it is much much lower and assuming most of Australia vaccinated then border force are unlikely to stop me.

GoRobin makes a good point. Merely being vaccinated may not be enough. They may test antibodies and quarantine you despite being vaccinated if they determine you don't have immunity. 

XWu the contract for the vaccine most recently mentioned is for delivery to Australia and the clinic from abroad, given manufacturing and extreme cold chain requirements. CSL has been contracted to manufacture other vaccines including the Queensland uni one.

GoRobin I suspect it comes down to definitions of a long time. I’m thinking towards the end of 2021 enough will be vaccinated here to enable non quarantine incoming given a vaccination will be an entry criteria, and an efficacy rate of 70-80% should be enough to stop it getting away. After a while with antibody levels it will join the other corona viruses that are the common cold.

GoRobin is right. I suspect quarantines will remain permanently in some form. That is to say, that depending on where you are arriving from, your vaccination status and antibody count, some form of quarantine could still apply to you. End of 2021 non quarantine arrivals? Wishful thinking. Unless something happens whereby this whole Covid house of cards falls, then I don't think we're going back to any semblance of normality any time soon, save for the odd travel bubble here and there.

Agreed. I think that's going to be the reality of international travel for some time to come. Indians, Americans, Russians, the French, Colombians etc. won't be able to travel to Australia quarantine free for a long time to come.

Eli the studies for corona virus vaccines have been going on since SARS and earlier (remember that many common cold viruses are corona virus that is why it is used as a vaccine base), so it is not quite ‘all of a sudden’. This year has been spent tweaking and testing vaccines that have been under development for a while, so your 15 year time frame is actually close to the mark.

vaccine development is highly dependent on a number of things, including type of virus, strain of that virus, how 'stable' that virus is (ie, how fast it mutates and the effects of that mutation), how big the need for a vaccine is and the cost.

There is no 'cure' for HIV because it hijacks the immune system, which vaccines rely on to do anything useful.

There is no 'cure' for the "common cold" because there are over 200 different virus types that cause it and each one would require a different vaccine and mutate at different rates. The common cold also doesn't cause major issues (eg death) in the vast majority of cases, so there isn't much funding available for such research.

There is no cure for cancer, because each type of cancer is different and requires a different response. The available pool of funding isn't enough to cover the research needed.

Flu mutates quickly and different versions of flu are more prevalent each season. Being vaccinated to H1N1 isn't much use if you get infected by H5N3.

vaccines normally take "10-15 years" to develop, due to funding and testing issues when there isn't a global pandemic. When there are no funding issues, and as much red tape as is safe to do so is cut, the time required goes down dramatically. It is not "15 years to develop. period". Since day 1 of this pandemic, everyone in medical research fields have said best case with no funding or testing problems, that we could see a vaccine for Covid-19 in 12-18 months. The recent interim report from Pifzer and expected interim report from Moderna are not "all of a sudden" or a surprise. They are expected and we have always been expecting some sort of news from the leading Covid vaccine projects around now when the best case roll out start date has always been in Feb 2021.

A SARS vaccine was made during the 2003-04 SARS pandemic. It never got past testing because the virus burnt itself out and there was no one to test it with.

There is a MERS vaccine in development, currently in testing. It is hampered by there only being a small number of yearly cases in only a single region of the world.

There are over 140 SARS-CoV-2 vaccines in development, 2 dozen of them are in human trials. A number of them were able to take the research already made by the SARS and MERS vaccine development projects and apply them to SARS-CoV-2 because they are all Corona-viruses.

Testing for SARS-CoV-2 vaccines will be faster then 'normal' because of the amount of cases.

Thank you himeno for such a comprehensive summary of the why’s and wherefores.

I think it's a good rundown of the new National Vaccination Policy which looks at expected vaccine availability, distribution and who'll get it first, all according to the policy and some Govt ministers. Where's the "speculation", maybe you mean the NVP's own suggestion that a vaccine might be mandatory for travellers to Australia? If so, very fair and relevant for ET to include this in the article.

Eminere I suspect not entirely speculative. There is enough evidence out there that there is a good likelihood of something available next year. As GoRobin says tge question is when next year.

LOL. So desperate that you'll submit to a largely untested vaccine that may cause significant side effects and will require annual boosters? I think I'd much rather stay home. I've done a lot of travel in my life already and although it would be sad for international travel to never become possible again, I'd rather stay in one country and live on my farm than submit to a risky medical procedure just so I can have a holiday.

I think there is some talk that the COVID-19 vaccination record will online, although I would still want a hard copy record, as borderforce online has been known to be quite temperamental and some travellers on foreign passport with valid visa were not allowed to be given boarding pass until the counter staff cleared it with DIMA on the phone, when the website is on the blink from time to time. A relative of mine was made to wait for 40 mins, and luckily still managed to get to the gate on time (those advice to turn up early for destinations requiring preapproved electronic visa certainly came true)

Sorry I meant COVID-19 vaccination done in Australia will be recorded online, and I assume the federal government will expect incoming visitors are required to submit vaccination record online prior travel, much like the visa application 

That never went away. It's been a feature for yellow fever vaccinations for decades now and also records details of travel vaccines, which have been required for a while, depending on the country.

Just off the top of my head - China requires proof of polio vaccination for overland arrivals from Pakistan.

Pakistan requires all citizens to be vaccinated for polio before flying out of the country. Probably also for land border crossings. Many countries, including Australia strongly recommend or even require, proof of polio vaccination for travellers who have spent 4 or more weeks in Pakistan, including non-citizens.

Saudi Arabia requires meningitis vaccines, polio and several others in order to be granted a Hajj vaccine and may administer oral polio shots at the border irrespective.

Several Pacific island nations/territories require MMR shots since late 2019.

Yes that is something I've known about for several years. It may not be a big deal if you can remain unvaccinated with the only vaccine requirement being for international travel you just don't travel. So what. HOWEVER, the big issue is, what if vaccination becomes compulsory to hold down a job, to enter a supermarket, get a driver's licence etc.? Because that's already the case in Argentina since 2018, and could be the blueprint for the rest of the world, eventually anyway.

No one will be liable. That’s the truth of this matter. But the likelihood is so small in comparison to getting hit by a car, I will not worry unduly. For those that do worry, don’t have it!

Richard, as a matter of fact there have been MANY adverse events in clinical trials, few of which have been covered by the media. Several vaccine makers and governments have detailed ways of trying to deal with an expected "flood of adverse reactions". So the risk is not small at all. nekillim is right to be concerned (and so what if you are an "anti-vaxxer" whatever that means) because neither governments nor the manufacturers will be liable, either for short or long term effects.

Emirates are you suggesting that Asia will let in unvaccinated people after their hard lockdowns this year, you’re dreamin!!!

Emirates, I hope you're right. Australia has been very authoritarian in it's approach (and as this intention by the Aus government shows) I think it could also be a sign of things to come in Asia. That being stated, it may, at least initially, only apply to airline passengers. Therefore, if you're already in Asia, you'll have to travel by land and make sure not to get on an airplane to cross borders. Not a big thing, as most SE Asian countries are pretty small anyway and their land based infrastructure is improving, allowing for faster travel than a decade or two ago. Catching a bus/train from Singapore to Vietnam via Malaysia, Thailand, Cambodia (and Laos if you want) is something backpackers have been doing for years.

I fear though that patrickk could be right. Only time will tell.

TheFreqFlyer I think you will find land borders in Asia are just as strict if not stricter. Vietnam is case in point Da Nang was locked down like Melbourne but for longer. The view that you can currently just get abus across these borders without checks is a tiny bit off the mark.

Patrick, actually, no. Melbourne's lockdown was far stricter and lengthier than that of Danang. The Danang lockdown lasted 6 weeks, with the first 4 weeks being quite strict, but then they loosened things. Now they're almost back to normal, no longer rigidly enforcing face mask rules (though they are still compulsory in principle). Melbourne's lockdown lasted nearly 4 months and masks are still strictly enforced in indoor spaces.

One thing that Danang was very strict about back in August was testing all 2200 foreigners stuck in, or residing in the city. It was made mandatory. Not sure what would have happened if you refused. They reportedly tried to test all 1.1 million inhabitants, but I doubt that happened because it's not reflected in the statistics I've read, with 1.339 million tests done overall in the country since the crisis started. This means they probably only did a couple of hundred thousand tests in Danang and stopped there.

And I never said that crossing Asian borders is easy right now. Emiratesdisenchanted seemed to imply that things may return to the old status quo in the future. I simply said I hope he's right, but fear things will end up being quite strict.

That stated, I know of several examples of foreigners crossing into Thailand quite freely before Myanmar's second wave started in August. Between April and August, Burmese traders/shoppers were allowed to enter Thailand and trade their wares/buy/sell merchandise after little more than a temperature check. Cambodians were allowed to (get this) drive their own vehicles 75km away from the border, with their entire families, to go for hospital check-ups and then shopping afterwards in Surin. There were no quarantines, no tracking, no restrictions imposed on them. One person received permission to go to the hospital and then packed the car with the entire family! I think they put an end to that, but the fact it was happening for several months in a country widely seen as having strict border controls during this crisis goes to show you that all is not as it seems. It seems that Cambodia didn't reciprocate, which seems like a double standard, even if no Thai would ever go to Cambodia for medical treatment, but still.

Of course now Cambodia has imposed a 14 day hotel quarantine (the previous arrangement was 2 days in quarantine and you were allowed to do the rest of your quarantine at home or a location of your choice after testing negative) so things are getting stricter.

Land borders and arrivals by air = different treatment it seems. I also foresee the possibility of strict new requirements for travel being applied first exclusively to air arrivals and only later to land based ones. Currently, most third country citizens need to arrive by air, as land borders are only open to citizens of the neighboring country and even then, generally limited to truck drivers, transport and logistics operators and other permitted categories.

Thailand has been talking about reducing the quarantine time for "low-risk" countries including Australia down to 10 days and will reportedly vote on it soon, but there seems to be a reluctance to bring it down just yet. Although starting in January they aim to bring back the Chinese quarantine free, in time for Chinese New Year in order to boost the tourism industry and foreign investment.

Freq I suppose it depends on sources bu DaNang had fewer cases to start with and went in much harder and they did test one third of the city over a week and a street with any cases was closed off and positives forceably hospitalised. If Melbourne went that hard it would’ve been quicker. Lockdown is related to cases. When numbers drop regulations are eased.

It is easier for governments around the world to ban things, rather than working towards solutions. If the vaccine is mandatory, fine - but the govt needs to roll out a system for it to happen and be recorded. If it is testing at the airports, work on that (other countries are doing it). Whatever the government needs to do to open our country, they should be working towards a policy and have the systems / information in place to make it happen. 

I worry our country will be able to open borders but the govt will never be ready and they will just continue the hotel quarantine because it is easier. 

VHOEJ - I also am amazed that with only 23 days until the government have to decide on international borders we are not hearing anything positive. I now expect that our borders will remain closed, including imprisoning it's own citizens, for another 3 months because they do not know what to do or how to control it! I hope I am wrong.

The Australian government will almost certainly extend the travel ban for a couple of more months. Remember, this is a global crisis and until most of the world (and soon thereafter) the entire world returns to a semblance of normality, there is little point in begging to be let out, when most countries still impose travel restrictions and some have even imposed new more stringent ones in recent weeks, including China and Malaysia, both of which ban certain nationalities from entering OUTRIGHT even if they hold permanent residency in these countries. So, an Indian or American PR holder is banned from returning to Malaysia at the present time, while an Indian, Filipino or Belgian long-term residency visa holder is prevented from returning to China at this time, even if they agree to undergo the mandatory quarantine.

Therefore, Richard, it doesn't really matter. Unless things start getting worse in Australia, I think it's not a bad place to be right now. With the exception of Victoria and now Adelaide, things are fairly open in Australia. It's one of the only countries in the world where you are allowed to catch a domestic flight without a face mask (except routes to Victoria and possibly Adelaide). In America you can be banned from flying for so much as pulling your face mask down on a plane, and in Asia it's impossible to imagine being allowed to board without one either. These rules will certainly remain in effect for at least 3-6 more months in my opinion, and possibly longer.

You are right, Australia is a decent place to be, but if what I want is not here, then off I go. End of December I am leaving and will just have to endure 14 days quarantine on my return 4 weeks later I guess. No problem.

VHOEJ, I don't think a mandatory vaccine for travel is anything to look forward to. In time, you won't be able to buy groceries at the store without getting one! That's where we're headed it seems.

I am sure there will be some kind of global "solution" rolled out within the next 12 months, which will open all the borders. There is a small chance of things going back to the old status quo, but more than likely, they will push hard for the digital health passport. An actual mandatory Covid-19 shot is unlikely to happen just yet. It could happen in the future, but I don't see it happening in the short-term.