Qantas to resume Perth-Singapore flights on Boeing 737

At least the launch sale prices are competitive - $1499 return in J is worth it IMO.

And Qantas just launch Brisbane-Perth new Business suite! Does it getting ridiculous?

I am sorry but "Does it getting ridiclous?"

You bet its not

Brisbane to Perth has been a bigger market then Perth to Singapore for years

There were like 4 BNE-PER flights daily 7 days a week compared to 1 flight a day to SIN 7 days a week

You may be right. But by all means, does not matter how comfortable they are flat seats absolutely unnecessarily for day 4 hr domestic flight and very welcome for overnight 5+ hours international one. Qantas put those flat seats because they want that market share form Virgin and they decided not to fight for one with SQ and alike. Free competition at it most ridiculous stance. YMMV of course.

What and fly them half empty?

I wouldn't think they'd be half empty on this new schedule and the new a330 buisness class looks a lot more exciting than SQs current a330 buisness product.

Why so? They were full before, but only because many people connected on to London and Frankfurt. Take them away and what do you have? An 737/A320 sized load. Without them bit hard to fill up a daily A330 flight.

Contrary to what the article says, 737's and A320's ply many many many routes throughout the world in the 5-5.5 hour range. Within the region close to Perth, look at MH, GA, MI (SQ's sibling), PG etc. All full service carriers.

Personally I've flown Turkish, British Airways, United, American in business class on narrow body aircraft on flights within this range. Whislt of course I would have prefered a bed, fact is for the length the seat did the job.

The onyl issue for Qantas is to ensure that their short haul business seat is charged as such, which I reckon it will be.

The only one that would remotely work would be an A332 to KUL to hook up with BAs service to LHR when it gets re-instated later in the year.  But with Air Asia X and MH, it's a bit saturated imo.

Or more to the point to link up with the OneWorld partner that Qantas sponsred in and their network around Asia, vis MH.

Though of course most of these onwards flights would then be on 737's.

That is also true about working with BA for connectivity to LHR in KUL other than SIN. 

Since they've been devaluing amount of points and status for flying with partner airlines, this is an opportunity for QF to boost loyal members to fly with them when they open up more destinations on their own metal.

No QF A380s from SIN to Europe.  BA operate A380s though I think.

BA operates 777s,although it would be nice to see a SYD - SIN - LHR in the QANTAS a380 as an alternative to DXB.

Actually BA has a second flight LHR-SIN-LHR (BA11/12) which is an A380 a few days a week (might be daily now). In fact this flight is the first connection from the QF Perth flight.

BA16 which comes from Sydney leaves 30 minutes later.

QF do not have any aircraft that operate to London via Singapore.  All are via Dubai.

It connects to the BA11/12 which is an A380 service, have to book on BA ticket as QF will route you on EK metal

Connects with a 5 hour wait though.

Apart from sheer size I think a 737 is all over a 772 (with 10 across seating??). Using narrow bodies to their range makes sense (757s across the Atlantic are very common) and in the US 737s across the continent is the rule. This route should work well, and next should be a A332 Perth to Dubai to connect with QF9 and keep the utilisation rate up.

I agree in theory you should be utilising the riight aircraft for the right route (range, capacity etc.)

My point is, when you have a domestic grade product at the same or dearer price point as a true ultra long haul product, why would one choose the inferior comfort? 

I wouldn't all what SQ has on their A330's and old 777's (which they run to Perth) ultra long haul. It is a medium haul business class product, being opeated on what is essentially a short verging JUST on mid haul route.

That said the real issue for Qantas is capacity. The route for Qantas can only sustain a 737 sized aircraft. Maybe long term what Qantas needs to do is look at investing in some A321's and offering a business class product like AA and if I recall BA are now offing on similar length routes. Of course charging the correct premium for it too.

Procuring new aircraft type = years away! If they were looking at a large single aisle, my moeny would be on the 737-9. They'll most likely keep to the same family.

Agree the 737 is better than nothing, but it's purely token. Hopefully for the good people of Perth, it's a platform to one day being serviced by an internationally configured aircraft. Instead of a spare 737 getting chucked in due to a FIFO mining contract being cut up!

They are already looking at single isle fleet replacement for Qantas. Yes could be a few years off, but that said they do have A320 family aircraft on order with deliveries starting in 2016 which could be any variant in the family AND can be sent to any business unit, including Qantas mainline.

I agree with your first point AJW, that this route is medium haul international.

However, I would like to see some evidence (previous load factors specific to the route) of your second point: ie. "the route for Qantas can only sustain a 737 sized aircraft."

If I am not mistaken, the previous operation of this Qantas flight was on an Airbus A330 .. and the reason given by Qantas for it's termination was that it wasn't economic. The capacity was previously justified by QF to place an A330 on the route. Remember, an aircraft can be 100% full and still be a yield failure. The fact that SQ can offer multiple services on wide-bodies on the same route shows that market capacity is not an issue in Perth.

With the cost of fuel having dropped dramatically, it is highly probable that such an operation is now profitable for QF based on previous loads vs yield equation. What IS 'variable' these days, is the 'loyalty' of the Perth market to QF - particularly where Qantas has willingly destroyed any concept of customer loyalty.

The real problem here for Qantas is previous history and current market laziness. Suggesting that Qantas should run out and buy some A321's is lunancy. A new complete new frame type for QF for just one route, where the need is highly questionable? That is exactly how airlines get into financial trouble. To their credit, Qantas is now trying to extract itself from previous bad decisions. The correct answer is for QF to put a A330 back on the run (to be competitive and do some heavy 'lifting' with their WA marketing to restore some confidence and market share. Problem is, QF A330's are in very short supply right now. Until they do that, this B737-800 service will be a complete money-loser and only further damage Qantas credibility in the west.

I posted this elsewhere, but only 30% of all passengers that pass through Changi actually enter Singapore. So that means that 70%, plus of course some of the 30% are using Singapore as a hub.

Now in the past Singapore was a mini hub for Qantas, hence it could justify an A330, but with that hub traffic now gone, it is plain that an A330 can no longer be justified.

Also another stat I publised around 2400 Australians a day enter Singapore (again many would be using Singapore as a stop over location from destinations futher afield). Now WA has 10% of the population, so you could assume that is 240 passengers a day from WA flying to and entering Singapore.

The big unknown of course is how many Singaporians are flying to Perth, but doubt it would be nearly as much as Aussies flying to Singapore.

240 of course is about the capacity of one A330-200 in Qantas international config. So to fill one A330-200 Qantas would need probably 60% of all Aussies flying to Singapore, maybe 30 passengers connecting elsewhere and 30 Singaporaians flying to Aus. No way.

A 737-800 at half the capacity yes.

So to me the only real issue is the price of the business class seat. Whilst more than suitable for the flight length, there is no way it can be priced the same as SQ.

PS I wasn't suggetsing Qantas goes out to buy an A321 for this route. They are however in the market for 737 replacements, and frankly I think they should be looking at something like the A321 to offer more point to point Asian flights but with a business cabin more akin to what we spolit Aussies (and sandgropers in particular) expect.

Actually Qantas looks to be charging a heck of a lot less than SG. SG is asking $4k , compared to ~$3k for Qantas (I've tried to find the highest fares out there), so your point is moot. Plus the recent trend (BA, AA, Qatar) is pushing ultra premium narro-body services (as @AJW has alluded to). Sure, Qantas business won't be lie flat, but if the price is right, it doesn't matter. Great that Qantas is trying a new strategy - and if they keep the pricing right for the product, then another good option for travellers. Can only see this a positive.

I still can't come to grips with a lie flat bed for such a relatively short flight which arrives in Perth close to midnight, and well after for the schedule later in the year.  With a departure time from Singapore of 1820, by the time they have served a meal and cleaned up, then getting changed into the free PJs, you would be lucky to have an hours kip.

SQ 772's are 9 abrest and have refitted economy and regional business class.

I don't think SQ could care less to be honest. They have the lions share of the market for the simple reason of their onwards network.

Qantas cannot compete with that and is not pretending to either, though maybe now perople realise why Qantas wanted to set-up their own full service airline in Singapore.

It depends on the age of the plane.I would be connecting from Adelaide using the Crazy O'Clock service to Perth to feed into this but would sooner If It was a New 738 get this over say a past it's use by date SIA 772.

Which is a better aircraft (not bigger!!!) than a new 737 for likely loads???

I guess when QF roll out swank J on A330s, and then give WA this J offering, some of us reserve the right to be a little miffed, exclamation mark.

Define better? It is all about the load to be carried. No point flying a 'better' (if you will) A330 if it is half empty and making a loss.

I understand they're a business making business decisions based on bottom line but back when they did fly this route I can't even begin to tell you how many times it was a schmidtfight trying to get confirmed seats on this route. It was heavily booked more often than not.

I have clients who have been hanging for this news since they pulled it. Sure, not all of them will care about the product offering; they'll definitely care about the light scheduling though.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a great step for them to bring it back. It just feels a bit token gesture. Hopefully that will improve down the track if/when the route does well. Perth hasn't felt the love for a while...

Will be waiting for that news for a long long time... 

Many of us miss those days.Just sitting next to someone when I last flew Qantas ADL-SIN connecting onto the BA12 onto London got me thinking how much we QF lot who fear Dubai really miss our beloved Favourite city of Asia.

I'm with you Franz.  Though my experience in Dubai is now five years past, I will always remember the treatment we received in transit, many stuff-ups requiring us to endure security screeneing twice, just being tolerated by counter staff at the transfer counter, and watching almost a hundred guest workers from Bangladesh being treated in an inhumane way.  Things may have improved since, but it has really put me off flying thru there.  Exteme opposite to that is the norm in Singapore.

Singaporians and indeed those from Hong Kong, don't treat their migrant workers any better. Why do you think these countries get so rich? Mostly off the back of migrant workers.

Can't argue with that AJW, have seen many examples of that in my time in various cities, but this was in full public view in an airport terminal where you would expect that you should be putting your best foot forward for all to see, not the worst you can do.

Singapore Airlines has the Lions share of traffic because of where they can take passengers beyond Singapore.

Only about 30% of all passengers that pass through Changi actually enter Signapore. And of those 30% many are only stopping over for a night or two on the way to/from somewhere else and of course some live there too. Doesn't leave much left for others to pick up the slack on.

Additionally Singapore attracts on average 2410 Australians visitors a day. Now WA has about 10% of the population of Australia, so if we were to assume that travel patterns were equal around Aus, that means that there are only 240 passengers a day from WA. Of course we need to factor in Singaporians visiting WA. Either way it doesn't leave much of a passenger pool if you don't have the ability to take or receive passengers beyond does it?

Maybe your right the leprechaun doesn't get it. I mean to say how silly wasting A330's with flat beds on 4.5 hour domestic flights when there are ports in Asia that those A330's could be used on, ex Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne you know the corridor where 80% of the countries population lives. I mean to say the rest of the world gets by quite nicley with A320's and 737's on 4-6 hour flights.

I agree quit complaining.I remember the days when every week they ran a Jumbo Adelaide via Perth to Singapore way back in 1990 and that was a much bigger plane than the 738's THEY use now.I would have done for an inbuilt audio video on demand system back then but other than that no worries.I know they don't unless you count the two BA services to London have feed to the UK out of any Australian City but it is a start.

 PER-SIN with SIN as a destination is not a good market. About 300 seats a day. The reason SQ has so many flights and on wide bodies and the reason Qantas had A330's before is because of the passengers using SIN as a transit point to somewhere else. But SIN as a destination not that big in the grand scheme of things.

Posted the stats a couple of times now but only 30% of all passengers that pass through Changi actually enter Singapore, and that 30% also includes those that may be using Singapore for a night or two stop over.