Making a better case for flying on a 20 hour non-stop flight

Some basics I'd like to see for a flight that long would be an economy seat that is at least 18" wide and 33" pitch. Water bottle holder for each seat (I've found sipping on water very helpful) and an area to stretch out.

The thing I truly don’t understand is why no first class? Philosophically I’ve always thought, the longer the route, the better the class.

A good article David. Thank you.

CASA doesn't allow Australian registered carriers to put doors on their business/first class seats to they?
That might prevent the 'comfy cell' problem.

I doubt I’ll ever choose a non stop longer than 14 hrs unless there’s no other choice. Good thing is, these non stop flights will probably also be pricier so I can use the cost to justify my reason at work, If I have to ;-)

Dine on demand should be served with (biodegradable) plastic plates and cutlery so that it minimises noise in the cabin. When I've travelled on dine on demand airlines, although in theory it shouldn't wake the whole cabin, the whole cabin gets disturbed by the clinking of corckery and cutlery.

I'm glad that there are calls for better business class due to longer flights but the reality is most business travellers are now required to slug it out in economy, no matter how long their flight. How about a few articles that actually acknowledge this reality? Spruiking up the beneftis of J or F is great, but not really useful for the bulk of us, and not always transferable (Etihad is a great example here - lauded for its suites, but is one of the worst airlines to fly in Y that I've ever experienced, even as a VA Platinum)

I'm not a fan of doors on suites in F or J. When I have travelled in such suites, I always leave the doors open. I like open, airy cabins, which I think is even more important for these very long flights, so you don't feel too cooped-up in your little box!

As you stated David, economy class has no place on these flights. A premium cabin seat on a ULR flight for business trips and such, but not in cattle class for that self-funded holiday booking. It would be nothing short of a health hazard.

I read an article in the latest Australian Aviation (hard copy, sorry) about an Australian fellow who proposes a most plausible Y-class seat design with adequate pitch and recline for ULR flights. Perhaps airlines should have enough decency to consider this if they persist in offering cattle class and want to achieve greater than 75% yields.

Good article David. The point about common areas resonates with me, I do appreciate the Emirates bar area in their A380’s and the open spaces at the front of Qantas A380 business and first.

I wish they actually reached out to some of their long term economy flying passengers to design new economy seating etc - I could do a much better job - Ive sat in one of those seats for many many flights and know what they are lacking. But no, they will persist with things like the useless foot basket thing and no where to store a water bottle with the tray up. Maybe I'm wrong and they will ask some passengers, but probably not.

David this is a really good and well thought out article, great to draw on insights from your own experience on the SQ flights.

Thanks David. Useful, practical suggestions.

Aside from the comfort factor, I wonder if any liability assessment has been done re increased DVT risk for economy travellers on ULH. That factor alone could be sufficient to see the MVP be PE?

Somethings not discussed is adequate (comfortable) toilet to seat ratio & how to properly staff such flights, so that staff remain fresh, friendly & attentative throughout the flight.

QF certainly needs to tweak (or overhaul) it’s 787-9 PE seating. It hasn’t been the Godsend Joyce made it out to be.

To my above note, 3” more pitch per W class seat (equating to 1’ scraped up overall) plus a usable leg rest + foot rest would be quite adequate.

A thought provoking article, David. I am booked to fly Perth to London next year on a B 787 which regrettably has little capacity to provide my following suggestions to motivate passengers to move: first of all a small place to meet with a drink or a chocolate or whatever. The proposed revamp in the A380 by Qantas, as suggested previously will still look like a dentist waiting room unless it is staffed and drinks are poured. Plus a passenger friendly galley where hot drinks or soups are readily available. Chicken soups is alleged to be a cure all, so why isn’t available on an 18 hr flight or a hot chocolate? I reckon that all readers of your articles need a hot line directly to Alan J, who undoubtedly would be receptive to good suggestions from his key clients, don’t you think?

I think if QF is looking to assign part of the cargo area for passenger use, it would be great if "dine on demand" meals were served in a cafe-style dining area below the main deck. This would give people wanting to eat outside the main meal service times the opportunity to stretch their legs and change their scenery all without the noise and disruption to other passengers who are sleeping, working or watching movies. This could also mean, potentially smaller galleys on the main deck and giving that space to roomier seats.

Something like a cafe dining area is a great idea, and it would alleviate so many other problems.

Continued from above..

I found it difficult flying Emirates Dubai-Brisbane. How could people endure19 hours non stop, I don't comprehend. Emirates flight which I took was the worst flight of my life.

I think Singapore are doing the bare minimum for their ultra long haul to Newark... many faults lie in the business class seat itself and they didn’t bother to even modify it a little after it had complaints from customers. They are supposed to be the world’s best airline. And for some reason they don’t plan on changing anything. Their product relies too heavily on style rather than substance, contrary to Emirates and Qatar Airways.

I can't imagine sitting at an angle sideways of about 35 degrees in SQ J while trying to watch a (non touch) TV screen with my feet in a little pigeon hole. I hope they bring in yet another (but improved) J seat

With the emergence of ultra long non stop flights such as Sydney to London how is it economical to carry a full load of fuel the total distance rather than having a fuel stop 1/2 way ( eg Bangkok ) .
I confess my ignorance regarding exact fuel burn rates,but working on 7 tons/ hour and as weight is considered the enemy of fuel burn rates, how can it be more economical to carry an extra 70 tons of fuel to a Bangkok waypoint rather than fly to there with a lighter load and take on fuel there for the second 1/2 of the trip.
Additional to my fuel question, I would have to question whether people really want to save a couple of hours on such a long trip, I understand it’s probably OK for people in Business class, but the 90% passengers (economy) on the plane would probably prefer a stop and a bit of a walk around rather than be stuck in an economy class seat for 20 hours .

for 20hrs you need to sleep, and economy sleeping (even in premium economy) sucks. to make economy work i reckon they put a bunch of bunks in the hold and figure out how to make these bunks safe for take off and landing. when you book the ticket you chose a "sleeping shift" - so if you chose the first shift you board directly to a bunk, spend the first 9hrs or so in a bed, then the stewards wake you up, change over the sheets, and send you upstairs to a chair for the rest of the flight. you might need some sort of lounge/bar area to make this a bit more comfortable, but that's it. i reckon you'd get equal passenger densities (and hence economics) to current flights and it'd be a lot more comfortable.

Re the fuel load issue. It ways amazes me how many hours the plane has to fly before it is light enough to reach full (and efficient cruising altitude.

Great article. You pretty much summed it up in one line...”There is no place for economy” .... on these flights.

As someone who does LHR-MEL-LHR 3-4 times a year I haven't yet had the pleasure of the Qantas flight. We've been trialling other airlines due to cost.

Lots of very good ideas from contributors here. The idea for a restaurant in the hold area rather than service to each seat in particular strikes me as an award winning idea.

Having flown on the Emirates A380,Both of us have found the genuine break of a visit to the bar a game changer. Getting out of a comfortable J seat is necessary after 6 hours and three movies. So, Alan, design the spare space to be like your typical, friendly (Irish) bar, enough room for no more than 12 folk and I will be signing up for 18 to 20 hours: no sweat. Having just returned from NZ to experience the new 787 J suit, perhaps an extra 5 square feet of elbow room and perhaps a game of cards in the proposed lounge for the A380 ( still looks like a dentists’ waiting room) could make a big difference. Will still fly Qantas, but with perhaps a bigger smile on our face,

On my previous flight I noticed how inefficient and disruptive the call button is . I would like to be able to ask for drinks, extra pillows etc via the IFE. This will also make service faster, more efficient and less disruptive to other passengers (especially during quiet times).

On these long flights allot of the small things will become big problems, if not managed well.