New for the Roo: Qantas gets its first Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner
By David Flynn, October 20 2017
It’s been 4,329 days since Qantas first inked its deal for the Boeing 787, but on this grey morning a Dreamliner dressed in the airline’s iconic ‘flying kangaroo’ livery soared into Sydney as the first member of what Qantas intends to be a steadily-growing fleet.
That initial order was announced in December 2005, almost 12 years ago, at a time when the Boeing 787 was a ‘paper airplane’ existing in only drawings. Boeing had yet to build the advanced jet, let alone fly it.
That first test flight happened in December 2009, after a series of delays and setbacks not unusual for the introduction of any new aircraft – let alone one as radical as the Dreamliner, with its carbon-fibre composite construction – and it wasn’t until September 2011 that global launch customer ANA collected the keys for the world’s first airline-ready Boeing 787-8.
Two years later, in October 2013, the Qantas Group took delivery of its first Boeing 787-8, but in the stripe of low-cost airline Jetstar rather than the parent brand.
Behind Qantas' Dreamliner delay
So why is it only now – with 11 Boeing 787-8s in the Jetstar fleet and the more modern 787-9 model being flown across Australia by some ten international airlines – that Qantas is taking ownership of what happens to be the 615th Boeing 787 to be delivered?
Speaking with Australian Business Traveller on board the Qantas Boeing 787-9, Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce says Boeing’s original delay was compounded by the global financial crisis.
“Qantas was very prudent on managing its balance sheet and making sure we could get through that” he reflects.
“We also had commitments with other aircraft that had to lead (the Boeing 787) such as the Airbus A380, which we took delivery of in 2008, and they were pretty expensive – we spent over $4 billion in replacing the old Boeing 747s with the A380s.
“So that had to become a priority, which meant we had to push the Boeing 787s out until we could afford them… and now with the airline doing so well we can certainly afford them.”
Two more Boeing 787-9s will arrive in December 2017, and another in late February 2018,
Earning their keep
The Dreamliners will begin earning their keep from December 15 2017 when they take over the Melbourne-Los Angeles route, but the kicker will be the March 2018 launch of non-stop flights between Perth and London – an 18 hour trek which will finally remove the need for a stopover hop from the Kangaroo Route between Australia and the UK.
That flight will join up with the LAX service in a sweeping arc from London to Perth to Melbourne to Los Angeles – a pattern which Joyce describes as four of the Dreamliners painting a ‘smile’ across half the planet.
The next two Boeing 787-9s – due for delivery in July and August 2018 – will take the Brisbane-Los Angeles-New York route under their wing, with Qantas’ other Sydney-LAX and Melbourne-LAX flights connecting to the New York-bound Dreamliner.
Before the end of 2018 another pair of Dreamliners – the last in Qantas' current eight-strong order – will open up a second Brisbane-US route.
Joyce says that route will either be Seattle, where Qantas will work with partner Alaska Airlines, or the Chicago or Dallas hubs of US partner American Airlines.
Up next: Perth to Paris
The next pins to drop onto the Dreamliner’s network map will be Paris and a German city, tipped to be Frankfurt, along with new routes to the US and perhaps Asia – but those flights won’t start until at least 2020, when Qantas will have the option to take up a second tranche of Boeing 787s from its 45-strong order book.
Joyce says those purchases will depend on the Boeing 787-9 proving its mettle, both in terms of delivering the promised efficiencies – which is in little doubt – as well as how passengers embrace the non-stop Perth-London service, which is central to Dreamliner’s role in Qantas.
David Flynn travelled on the delivery flight of the first Qantas Boeing 787-9 as a guest of Qantas
David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
With such a limited fleet and flight crew trained specifically for this B789 and presumably no longer able to operate the Airbus A380s, what will happen when a B789 fails, especially during busier travel periods when other flights are full?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Apr 2013
Total posts 387
there is always one pessimist
09 Jun 2017
Total posts 30
The Airlines should be more than experienced with what to do here as they have multiple examples of out of service A380's or turn around events after engines blow etc.
19 Oct 2017
Total posts 4
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
29 Jul 2013
Total posts 203
These issues and challenges are basic table stakes for every airline. An airline as tenured and experienced as QF has the know-how to deal with these inevitable problems.
Japan Airlines - JAL Mileage Bank
09 May 2017
Total posts 12
Wonder which routes Sydney will serve......
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Oct 2011
Total posts 467
Qantas has said that the first four 787s will be based in MEL (doing routes to LHR and LAX) and the second batch of four 787s will be based in BNE (doing routes to LAX/JFK and a new US city). So at this stage, no 787s will be based in SYD. No doubt that will change once they place further orders.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
22 Jul 2015
Total posts 219
Would be nice to know but as long as we have the 380 service that's fine by me.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2560
No Qantas Boeing 787s slated for Sydney until Sydney is decreed as a 'base' for them, which could happen if & when (much more likely 'when') Qantas orders more Dreamliners... if Sydney then becomes a base for them, as Melbourne and Brisbane currently are, then we could see routes such as Paris-Perth-Sydney-San Francisco for example.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
The difference, Chris2304, is that presently with QF1/2/9 and 10, if there's a failure, at times QF terminates one flight at DXB to minimise delays.
07 Oct 2012
Total posts 1251
If QF terminates a flight at Dubai to re-accommodate other passengers, there a still passengers stuck somewhere who will get delayed. This would be the same across their fleet really. They get put up in a hotel overnight, re-booked to other QF or re-routed on other carriers (noting that QF had major issues terminating a flight in DXB last year leaving those passengers stuck - so it is not always a desirable solution).
12 Feb 2015
Total posts 89
You are absolutely right. The initial Qantas 787 operations will be very vulnerable to delay and cancellation as there will be zero redundancy or backup given that they are operating unique routes.
Emirates Airlines - Skywards
17 Apr 2014
Total posts 16
In my view (which I am entitled to), Qantas is dreaming if they think that direct long haul flights like Perth to London will bring home the bacon. The truth is that the A380 is a much maligned aircraft. True that it does have service issues at times, but you could argue that with many aircraft. If Airbus felt they could upgrade the A380 with more composites and a NEO option, then personally I think it is a winner. The reason is that most major airports are short of slots, especially those with stupid curfews. With passenger growth set to balloon, where will all these direct flights using smaller capacity get the slots from.As a sideline, Qantas may think they have done the deal on the Tasman at the expense of loyal Emirates passengers on this route. Do they seriously think that flying on a 737 at no doubt ever increasing fares due to lack of competition will bring home the bacon. I for one do not support sub standard service, on boring aircraft with lousy meals. Also, give me the a350 over a dreamliner any day.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
08 Aug 2016
Total posts 54
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Apr 2013
Total posts 387
its a big thing for qantas because of the long wait and the potential that this aircraft brings to qantas' international network. Yes they are not the first airline to revive the 787 they know, again its what the aircraft capabilities can do do improve the network. And for that reason I don't believe it is over hyped.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Jan 2012
Total posts 172
I haven't flown on the A350 yet and have only flown the LATAM B789 a couple of times. Can you tell me from your experience what is better on the A350 to the B787? Thanks
THAI / STAR ALLIANCE
20 May 2011
Total posts 13
I flew from Shanghai to Bangkok earlier this year with Cathay . First leg from Shanghai to Hong Kong was a Cathay A330. The leg from Hong Kong to Bangkok was in a Cathay A350. Both flights business class. I couldn't tell the difference. Even asked a crew member just to be certain.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Apr 2013
Total posts 387
The 787 helps Qantas’ network probably more than any other airline because of where Australia is on the globe.
29 Jan 2012
Total posts 182
I agree it will help Qantas financially given Australia's geography, but as a suitable aircraft for long distance when combined with passenger comfort, Qantas has made a big mistake here. The aircraft is suitable for 7-9 hour flight times and certainly does not sell passenger comfort for the 18hr flights Qantas is pitching for.
Seasoned passengers from Australia's east cost will opt for larger aircraft via Asia when en-route to Europe. The 789 is best placed for AU to Asia. Qantas is all about the marketing and profits, passenger comfort is well down the list. PER - LHR is a gimmick and I give it 8-10 months till it is pulled.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Jul 2016
Total posts 106
Well, the A350 I believe would not have even been put onto the drawing board. It is a no brainer for Qantas.
07 Oct 2012
Total posts 1251
And good on them... they are a business and are using it for PR & marketing. You have opened an article on it, so it is working.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
16 Sep 2011
Total posts 15
That really is so true.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
I've not yet travelled on an A350 but I have with two carriers on a B789: the experience was underwhelming.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Jan 2012
Total posts 172
Actually MEL-LAX on the B789 will commence on 15 December.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
06 Mar 2015
Total posts 235
The A350 is miles ahead of the B787 for Pax comfort. I have had a few trips in J class on both and the A350 leaves the B787 for dead , it's that much better!!!!!
QFF
16 May 2016
Total posts 66
Surely when travelling in J class that is purely a matter of product and design? I have flown three different airlines in J recently - airline A and B were on 787-9s, and airline C an A330. The products were vastly different. Airline A always ranks very highly in business class rankings, always top 10, but was a far worse product in my opinion than B and C who do not rank at all. I'm actually baffled by airline As consistently high J class rankings.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
20 Oct 2017
Total posts 2
Have flown both the A350 and 787 in both biz & premium and feel the A350 is superior comfort wise (legroom, headroom, noise) and lacks the gimmicky 787 windows, but frankly the difference is marginal and both are excellent aircraft.
Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
01 Aug 2012
Total posts 7
A350 beats B789 hands down, especially the Qatar A350. The striking difference between Qatar A350 and those of CX or Finnair is the absence of centre overhead bins in Business class. Sense of open space is much greater.
24 Apr 2012
Total posts 2432
Finnair doesn't have centre overhead lockers in business class on the A350. Cathay Pacific does, however.
QF
15 Apr 2015
Total posts 18
You’re probably mistaken, as Finnair J does not have the central overhead lockers
12 Feb 2015
Total posts 89
IIRC the forward business cabin on Finnair doesn't have central bins, giving a very spacious feel, while the second business cabin does have them.
27 Apr 2017
Total posts 39
Indeed, I agree with all of the above posters. The A350 is a superior aircraft to the B787 for passenger comfort.
25 Sep 2013
Total posts 1242
This. Could not agree more.
31 Mar 2014
Total posts 397
Yes but, Qantas paid 2005 prices. They wouldn't get A350's anywhere close to the same prices. For Qantas not to take delivery of 2005 priced 787's would be madness
07 Oct 2012
Total posts 1251
Agree with all the above really. Noting the passenger experience on the 787 has been ruined by the airlines, not Boeing. If the original economy design was implemented....
18 Aug 2017
Total posts 39
A newbie here, Hutch, what was the original economy design that you speak off?
04 Feb 2013
Total posts 6
Boeing designed the 787 economy cabin for 8-abreast seating, which was a rather luxurious configuration. To the best of my knowledge, only JAL has stuck with that configuration, however. All other airlines opted for a 9-abreast economy cabin, which results in roughly 17 inch wide seats. (ANA initially went with an 8-abreast cabin, but is shifting to 9-abreast).
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
15 Aug 2017
Total posts 116
A350 is superior from a pax point of view for comfort no doubt about it. Usually the same seat config with wider cabin makes the y 3-3-3 in 787 a big squeeze for shoulder width. Definitely noticeable when flying them back to back
23 Feb 2015
Total posts 260
I’ve flown the Jetstar 787 multiple times in premium economy (I can’t bring myself to call it business!) and economy and have found myself feeling more refreshed on landing than after flying on other planes for comparable distances (A330 for example).
03 May 2013
Total posts 677
Meh give me an A350 / A380 anyday for the distances we need to fly as Aussies. They may have bought the 787 cheap ages ago but what was the point if there is an aircraft better than it? They could have saved heaps and bought the A330 NEO which is direct competitor for the 787 and saved millions. The only saving grace of the QF 787 is that they ordered the quieter Genx engines and not the Rolls Royce troubled and loud monsters. It still won't be as quiet as an A350 let alone and A380. It will also be better than a 747 they will replace from every aspect except space. A380 was much more a big deal than this 'plain'.
30 Aug 2017
Total posts 32
"They could have saved heaps and bought the A330 NEO which is direct competitor for the 787 and saved millions."
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
20 Oct 2017
Total posts 2
The consensus seems to be that generally the A350 offers a better customer experience, despite specific customer fit-outs. Note JAL have 2-4-2 in economy which is one less seat than other 787 operators and they are receiving plaudits for it. However some objectivity is required as judging the 787 between economy on Jetstar compared to first class on BA will lead to vastly different impressions which is unfair on the aircraft itself.
Over a dozen airlines have ordered both types so putting purchase price aside there seems a valid case (operationally speaking) to operate both types side by side.
This is reminiscent of the 707 v DC-8 debate, both great excellent aircraft in their day.
Ultimately though, in my opinion, the A380 still remains the benchmark for the others to match.
QFF
16 May 2016
Total posts 66
So many airlines operating this aircraft in/out of Australia already. Big news for QF, but not exactly 'travel' news. The other airlines are probably happy QF is bringing this much attention to the plane - leisure travelers might start looking for it a bit more. I choose a 787 when crossing the Pacific every time. I believe it's the best option long haul.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
Where will the QF B789s be maintained? LAX?
11 Jun 2016
Total posts 14
Just got back from flying Qatar's A350 and then 787. The a350 product craps hard all over the dreamliner. Just my 2 cents.Good on Qantas but being last to market with this aircraft.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 Aug 2015
Total posts 5
What happens with the long haul Syd-JoBurg and S American flights in aged 747s?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Aug 2012
Total posts 2199
QF have six 744ERs that were 2002 builds. They'll stick around a while longer on JNB, SCL and SFO.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
13 Jan 2017
Total posts 74
There is often much conjecture about "which plane is better" etc . To me, once you are on board, regardless of class, around 70-80% of the travel experience is the particular fit-out deployed and the "soft product" - crew and food etc.
Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
14 Jan 2014
Total posts 340
@worldwanderer both the B787 and A350 are next gen, composite airframes with all the bells and whistles that that entails. However the A350 has a wider cabin than the B787 which makes a big difference comfort wise if you flying down the back of the bus. I personally also find the A350 quieter, more open and less cramped feeling than the B787.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Aug 2016
Total posts 64
Good to see the FB live feeds this morning as you came into SYD Hanger David. J seat looks interesting and the pantry items were right up our era. Looking forward to getting on the BNE/LAX flight in September 2018
Qantas
02 May 2016
Total posts 63
Have flown both 787 and A350 in J and Y and honestly don't believe any of the feedback about one being so much better than the other, in my view they are very similar. Obviously the fitout is different by airline but that is not Boeing or Airbus, I've flown 350 on CX, QR and CI and flown 787 on JL, AA and BA. I'm also told by a pilot friend that the economics of the 787 are far better than the A350, and QF are known for crunching the the economics really hard, so that combined with 2005 prices, why not?
21 Aug 2015
Total posts 86
Why is everyone so excited about this? Jetstar has had them for years! And the 350LR is a better and more comfortable aircraft. And those of us that gave up on QF years ago have been enjoying newer more comfortable aircraft and better prices. Too little too late as usual.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
zoomzoom, correct: QF charges high fares (like JL) but does not deliver (at least with the B789s) the same level of comfort in economy class.
23 Oct 2014
Total posts 238
Congrats on the new arrival Qantas the livery on this plane looks great. However the sensationalism over this arrival is quite amazing. Other operators have been flying this aircraft to Australia tor years already.
11 Jan 2017
Total posts 6
This is seriously like one watching one of your friends throwing a massive celebration because they’re upgrading from a Motorola V3 to an iPhone six years after everyone already got a smart phone.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
02 Jul 2011
Total posts 1374
While I agree with much of the sentiment above, that globally this isn't much of a significance, it is the first new type for Qantas in ten years, so is newsworthy.
Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus
13 Jan 2017
Total posts 31
Were there photos of the aircraft? Couldn't see any
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
19 Mar 2013
Total posts 7
Well, this starts to refute the "Qantas only cares about SYD, nothing for MEL BNE or PER" argument that is often seen in these and other forums.
11 Jan 2017
Total posts 6
Not really, if you asked any economy passenger who’s flown a 787 they’d probably rather something else, so Sydney is quarantined in Qantas’ current plans from the sardine experience.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2560
Sydney has no Qantas Boeing 787s on the map because Qantas doesn't have a SYD base for them, the arc or 'smile' flying pattern swings through QF 788 base cities which means MEL and SYD.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
cbouri, when you complain about the 'scripting' on this website, are you referring to the font in the forum where we make comments, or the font in the stories about which we comment, or something else?
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2560
Cbourl, please keep your comments on topic (that topic being the Qantas Boeing 787) rather than rabid rants.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
09 Aug 2016
Total posts 37
what a cushy gig working in PR for Qantas must be. They only need to sneeze in the direction of the media and they come running....
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
craigj77, it will be instructive to see if the 'traditional media' carries stories when B789 international flights are cancelled due to the aircraft requiring repairs.
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1427
Traveller 14; every time an A380 sneezes it is front page news so I suspect no different to a 789. As they are new and the JQ ones function well they have a few years of clear air before the stories come by. The five years of JQ experience was a wise decision.
QF
11 Jul 2014
Total posts 1002
Great for Qantas and consumers, all I know is the prices are coming down with some amazing deals from other airlines. Hopefully Qantas will price match.
13 Sep 2016
Total posts 174
Some real whingers here. The Boeing 787-9 is a great aircraft to fly in, and sure it would have been better if Qantas had them years ago and I'm sure Qantas would agree as well because of the cost-savings especially in fuel when fuel prices were so high. But bottom line is that the airline finally has its Dreamliners and they're going to open up some new routes as well as improve things all around.
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