Finnair debuts new business, premium economy class to Singapore in May

Premium economy is looking to be the new business class it seems. The gap between economy and business class these days is just too great. I welcome any airline bringing it in.

Personally I can't see that PE is worth the money, particularly Qantas.

PE sales prices and upgrades are definitely worth it so it is my preferred seat if they are on offer.

I don’t understand why airlines don’t put angle flat seats or other high density business configurations of old a solid premium economy. Serve the economy meal on real China’s and your done. I would happly pay the premium for a pseudo business’s class. I don’t want a recliner chair.

I'm very curious to see what PE looks like on Finnair.  I always fly Finnair between Europe and Asia (and on to Australia with Qantas or Cathay) and often spring for their business class - which is the best value by a LONG way.  Finnair business class is often around half of what you pay on Qantas and it's just as good.

I fly with Finnair for their RTW deals and their business class is already pretty good....any improvement is very welcome. The A350 flights have been incredible value and their network is growing. Flying DFW-LHR via Helsinki in March...all being well.

May I add that Singapore Airlines, contrary to popular assumption, is also a "mainly leisure driven airline".

I think Finnair has to be aiming for 5 star status. While the product previously is barely acceptable on shorter routes to Northeast Asia, SIN is really pushing it. I believe Finnair, now with a Stockholm hub, and a potential future Riga long-haul hub too, is primed to use the new product to launch Australia, especially Perth, Melbourne. Despite ME3 and despite proposed BA QR JVs, it really appears that there's a clear preference for a SIN stopover to Australia as evidenced by SQ's quick buildup of service and Qantas resumption of SIN to London, when the logical step would've been to launch Brisbane/ Perth - Europe nonstops. If that's the case, AY to SIN service really needs to be improved, especially if Aeroflot is any indication of what the next gen European carriers products are going to be. After all, within AY current product, AF has matched and gone beyond that already.

Finnair from Asia to Europe via Helsinki works very well, with either a stopover at the airport hotel in Helsinki, or there are usually convenient onward connections. Same on the return. The previous business class was excellent in all respects, and it looks like even better in the new incarnation.

For the money in the past Finnair have had some great deals from Australia to Europe in business class via Helsinki with connections usually in Singapore or Hong Kong with either QF or CX. the only downside is the final flight from Helsinki to your final European destination which can be a 3 hour flight to places like Rome or Barcelona in the typical Euro business class, though I believe over the coming norther summer they are using A330's and A350's for some inter European flights which would make the whole journey much more pleasant.

Finnair really bungled the Bus. seating on the otherwise great A350.  Put in extremely narrow business seats with footwells the size of a (triangular) dinner plate. Very uncomfortable for sleeping on long-haul which the A350 is earmarked for. Current A330 is better if you are lucky enough  to get one subbed for a A350.

I have been using Finnair for some time now for business class from the UK to Brisbane.

Great seats and service :-) Looking forward to the improved seats.

However, for some months now I have been unable to make any new bookings, with the message 'no flights available' ?

But flights are available from Helsinki to Brisbane???

Anyone know why?

My first thoughts were around the dreaded SQ J seats with their awkward footwells and uncomfortable sleeping position with the exception of a few rows

Is it known whether FULL extension of lower limbs is possible rather than an enforced sideways or other position?

The pics do not make this clear

Not to be a complete downer but the nine highly exaggerated positions sitting/slouching/slumping/squatting/sleeping/fainting, as 'demonstrated' by the model 'passenger' are not any different to what you can already do on many/most decent business class seats(!). And in no way does this new business class seat look any more spacious or substantially 'better'. As for the total lack of built-in neck and shoulder support(!!).......well that's a real big bummer. Imagine having to faff around with a pillow very time you want to rest your head while seated. You may recall SQ had a similar issue with lack of neck/support when it premiered their new business class seat on the brand new a380 back in 2007? At least SQ rectified that problem quickly.

For once I'm trying real hard not to break my cardinal rule of not negatively judging until I've tried the new airline seat/product. But this sure looks underwhelming. On the other hand, I do like the look of the smart new PE seat.

Well this was certainly a bolt from out of the (Nordic) blue! Certain to be very controversial, but you don't make any significant move forward by doing whatever everyone else is doing and playing it safe. I liked the original BA 'sofa class' concept but think this is better suited to Finnair, as the airline says it's more of a premium leisure market than the same 'business traveller' market as bigger cities and airlines. I'm not going to pass judgement until I've tried it, because I am sure Finnair and Collins Aerospace have put a LOT of thought and work into this, they wouldn't risk a 200m Euro investment otherwise. I always enjoy catching Finnair flights from Singapore and Hong Kong, so it will be interesting to see just how comfortable this is on the long haul where you spend most of the flight sleeping. I think that will be the deciding factor, as the seat looks comfy enough for daytime flights.

In regard to the new J seats, I definitely think that a "wait and try" methodology may be best plan here, given that the concept and pics don't seem to adequately translate through to most people's psyches. I've always enjoyed the Finnair experience, so I'm not keen to pass judgement yet, until tried.

One area that I would criticize, though - puzzles me a lot. That is the provision of USB power selection. 

It seems universally accepted that USB-B sockets have more power and generally charge much faster than USB-A sockets. Yet, Finnair chooses to select a USB-A (slow) socket for both Business and Premium Economy. Surely, a USB-B socket would have been a preferable choice for customers, with a barely differential cost factor? 

However, Finnair has also chosen to fit a USB-C (the newest iteration of USB standards, which uses a slightly different connection, compared to USB-A/B. That makes sense for Business class, where it is to be expected that business people may well have the latest technology. But does it make sense to exclude USB-C from Premium Economy, where some business people and often wealthier Economy passengers may possess similarly new tech?

Small point, I know. But it is these 'small' points that show lack of attention to detail - and can sometimes ruin an otherwise brilliant experience,

I'm with everyone else here, my first reaction was a bit "What the...?" but as long as the bed is comfortable I'd have no problems. Well, some sort of headrest would be welcome, not keen on propping pillows behind my neck and having to adjust them every time I shift my sitting or 'slouching' position. I like the general concept in terms of the space, the high walls for privacy without the extent of closed doors, plus USB-A and USB-C ports along with wireless charging, although those are things which any new business class seat these days should have. Looking forward to the first reviews of this, especially on overnight flights to and from Asia.

If this product is so great, why won't Finnair tell us the length of the "bed"? Any bets that it's less than 6 ft (183cm)?

That new business class seat looks good for "lounging" but awful for sleeping. My guess at the "bed" length based on the photos of the very small female model is it will be around 5ft to 5ft 4 inches (150-160cm).

Lots and lots of overhead photos with a screen conveniently blocking some of the space below but not a single picture of the footwell. As another writer (Ian62) has noted, the SQ footwells can be horrible. But we can't see the footwell space and given how carefully they were avoided perhaps Finnair's marketing team knows there might be a problem? I hope not, I have enjoyed several long haul and many short haul flights on Finnair and want them to do well. But I also like to sleep long haul...

As Sir Humphrey used to say to Jim Hacker in Yes Prime Minister, this seems a "very brave, very courageous" choice of business class seat. But Finnair is not an airline to do things rashly, just like the Finns (well unless they've had a bit too much vodka), so I have to think or at least hope a LOT of research and testing has gone into this, especially actual testing with real people of up to 6', and with them spending the actual length of a flight in the seat, like 12-14 hours, being served meals and watching movies and reading and working and especially sleeping. That's the best way to test any product like this, and I can't think that Collins did not do all of that in developing this new AirRest seat before they even brought it to market, let along all the testing Finnair and Tangerine would do.

being a leisure airline.. I do wish Finnair could make the jump down to AU...

The stopovers in Helsinki & Tokyo are welcome breaks from other usual hubs from AU.

Seats look great.. I already enjoyed their J class in the past 

I have enjoyed Finnair several times when travelling from Singapore and Hong Kong to Europe connecting from another airline from Brisbane and the seats look interesting but wonder how the seatbelt will work when you are in some of the possible positions as with a regular lie flat type of business class seat the seatbelt  moves with the seat but I assume these are fixed and it would be annoying if every time the seatbelt sign came on you had to move to an acceptable position.

Also as the seat doesn't recline and is always in the upright position what position will you have to be in the seat for take off and landing. I know most people will probably be in the regular position for take off and landing but i am sure there will be some that will try something different.

Even the Collins Aerospace article on their new seats doesn't disclose length, but I agree it's unthinkable Finnair would install less than 190cms.  The other area not mentioned is the significant weight saving by removing all the structure and mechanicals of electric recline and massage features.

I like the look of it.

As someone who 'slouches and slumps' and spreads bits and pieces all over the place this could be perfect for me...or not... However, interested to try at some point in time.

Lost me at "no recline".

Anyone who has a bad back might be well-advised to avoid this seat and choose a different airline.

I think I'm booked into the new Business class from SIN-HEL in April. It's hard to tell, but it's an A350 and the seat map doesn't correspond to either of the existing A350 configs on SeatGuru. Plus there are 30 seats in the Business cabin, which according to this article is what the refitted A350 cabin will have. 

Interestingly, they do not yet appear to be selling Premium Economy (on any flights), but I did a dummy booking for Y on the flight that I'm booked into, and the seat map shows what I think is the Premium Economy cabin but all seats are blocked. It's shown as a separate mini cabin at the front of Economy, with a 2-4-2 layout, which corresponds to the details here. However, it's not quite "three rows of 2-4-2 seating" - it's a lone 2 seats (K & L) in the first row, followed by three more rows of 2-4-2 (i.e. 26 seats rather than 24).

Still though, all things considered I think this is one of the refitted aircraft, as it certainly isn't an existing layout. I look forward to experiencing it!

"feet tuck into a recess beneath the shelf of the seat in front of you"

Sounds potentially like the dreaded SQ J seat with respect to the uncomfortable angle passengers need to attempt to sleep in and the restricted nature of the space

If this is indeed the case, the dramatic Nordic design of the curved shell, whilst looking good in a designer furniture store, may have little to do with stretching out fully and getting a good nights sleep

.. look like I get to see/try all this!  Am flying LHR-SIN with FINNAIR in Business class on May 26.  Don't mind the pics and comments above but curiously seat selection (we are 2 pax) was difficult. The A350 aircraft seating plan bears no relationship to the above with all seats (or should that be lounges?) shown in a very different layout.  Sit next to your partner?.. rather difficult it turned out to do that!

Guess we will find out more in May

Frankly, I think this looks terrible. No recline, no back support, no elbow room, constrained footwell, and while it allows for some new relaxing positions try holding any of them for any extended period of time (esp. with a seatbelt on). Unless they've done some serious ergonomic engineering on the back (and given its curve I highly doubt that) this will be awful.

Ok, I found this thread (seemed to be non-active anymore, anyway) as I was researching for my next trip to Europe this Easter.

I got a free upgrade from Finnair from PE to Business (yes, other airlines still do that!!) on my last summer (northern) trip to Europe for my SIN-HEL leg. I find that many comments here are negative regarding the new no-recline business class seat, but seriously, it was THE BEST (let me repeat, THE BEST) business class seat that I have tried. Those recline button options are just really of a hassle and I have really been a fan of it as it often takes a couple of buttons to get to the right position that you want.

With the new Finnair business seat concept, really, no hassle. The cushions given were good enough for me to lounge very comfortably and I could contort my body in whatever position I wanted because the backrest widely curves around your back so you can easily find whatever position you feel like. It also gives you ample of space for your shoulder when you are asleep so if you turn a lot when you sleep, like me, or if you have broader shoulder, this width is a nice addition.

It is indeed a new concept, but I really admire this Nordic carrier to be confident and take this step. Although come to think of it, is this move a really 'bold' move? Essentially, it just replaces the engine/motor to do the recline for you with pillows/cushions that you just arrange as you wish to make yourself comfortable (hence more freedom). The shell gives excellent support for you to do that. You can still sleep comfortably. But I suppose it can be perceived as 'bold and courageous' by a certain risk-averse segment of the population.