Qantas is unlikely to pull the trigger on its full set of 45 orders and options for the Boeing 787, but the airline is open to adding the new Boeing 787-10 into the mix.
Qantas Group Alan Joyce has previously said he’d like to take all 45, enthusing "I'd like to order all of them if I can make a good return out of them, but now sees a different path ahead – one which means fewer Dreamliners in the fleet.
The size of the initial order, which stretches back to 2005, reflected Qantas’ intention to have the Boeing 787 replace the Airbus A330 on domestic routes.
But Joyce no longer plans to put the Boeing 787 onto domestic routes, he told Australian Business Traveller on the sidelines of the delivery of the first Qantas Dreamliner in Seattle last week.
"Our thinking has evolved... while the 787 as with the A330 are pretty powerful they are over-spec'd" for domestic flights, "so the economics do not work."
Instead, Qantas will revamp its domestic fleet from the mid-2020s with either the advanced Boeing 737 MAX or the Airbus A320neo and the yet-to-be-built mid-sized Boeing 797, which would also pick up some flights into south-east Asia.
Read more: Qantas eyes Boeing 737 MAX, Boeing 797 for domestic fleet
So where does that leave Qantas' 45-strong order book for the Boeing 787?
“These are going to be great aircraft and we're going to want to take quite a lot of them over time (but) I don't think we're going to need (all 45),” says Qantas International CEO Gareth Evans, the former Qantas Group CFO who, after 2½ years heading the airline’s international arm, moves into the orange hot-seat at Jetstar next week.
“We’ve got eight for Qantas plus 11 already in Jetstar, plus another 45 which is more than enough,” Evans told Australian Business Traveller in Seattle. "I don't think we're going to need that many.”
Qantas will consider a second tranche of Boeing 787-9 deliveries from late 2019 or early 2020, with Paris and Germany already pencilled in as likely European destinations.
“Because of their size and flexibility there’s also great potential for Asia as well,” Evans said.
Evans said that Qantas could also sign up for the Boeing 787-10, which launches in early 2018 and can carry more passenger than the 787-9 over a slightly shorter range – although one that’s still sufficient for high-demand routes such as Sydney and Melbourne to Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo.
“We've got a very flexible order stream so we can decide what we take and when (with) the ability to flick between 787-8’s for Jetstar and -9s or even -10s for Qantas,” Evans allowed.
“It's obviously all got to be balanced and the business case has got to stack up, but with Boeing there's lots of flexibility to move those things around.”
David Flynn travelled to Seattle as a guest of Qantas
David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Jul 2013
Total posts 35
Cue the inevigrizzling about 737’s on the cross country routes....
20 May 2015
Total posts 579
QF might use the upcoming 797 for transcon, or it may equip a subfleet of narrowbodies with a premium configuration for that.
12 Dec 2012
Total posts 1031
Are you thinking something like the premium heavy 3 class AA A321 Transcon?
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1429
I have always thought the 78-10 is the perfect (but cramped) replacement for the A333, much same range and size, and can reach most ports in East and North Asia from most ports in Australia.
30 Aug 2017
Total posts 32
" replacement for the A333, much same range and size"
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1429
Kane not sure ‘way bigger’ my reading says about 10% bigger 330 vs 300 seats, and the A333 is about 10% bigger than the 789. The A339 a NEO version closes the gap on fuel efficiency and range with the 79-10, so an interesting competition. QF though will stick with the 78-10 given the very low price it has secured.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@patrickk:
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@kabe100:
Correct only if an apple vs orange comparison can be considered correct.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 Aug 2017
Total posts 17
You could use the Perth - Melbourne leg on the 787 to avoid the 737 business class.
Qantas
13 Jun 2015
Total posts 139
I Think that qantas should replace the a330-303s with b787-10s. B787-10s have the same range and will have the same pax configuration. They can open up some new destinations such as Seoul, Mumbai, Ho Chi Minh. I feel that qantas will need to revive routes such as Perth-Hong Kong And perth-Tokyo.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 463
The Perth market would be well served by Qantas cooperating with Cathay and JAL for Perth-Hong Kong and Tokyo. For example a daily service for each of QF and CX at different times to Hong Kong would be an improvement over the current schedule. There are several reasons this won’t happen, including poor relations between QF and CX and the low priority of the Perth market for QF.
12 Dec 2012
Total posts 1031
QF isn't allowed to cooperate with CX/JL on AU-HKG/JP routes. The ACCC won't let them. Not enough competition on the route to allow a QF/CX, QF/JL agreement.
That's why QF/JL codeshare between JP and AU via SIN and used to codeshare on PER-NRT (QF op) and BNE-NRT (JL op), but not SYD-NRT (both).
If the WA government wants more CX flights to the state, then they should work to open up other WA ports. The only airport in the state that CX can't fly to (without cutting other flights to AU) is PER.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 463
Yes I know of ACCC issue, however, in the current situation, there is no competition on PER-HKG direct because there is only one operator. If you consider indirect services there is plenty of competition and this would continue if QF and CX cooperated to provide a better customer service on the direct route.
Flights to ports in WA other than PER struggle to be viable. Recent efforts to establish KTA-SIN seem to have been unsuccessful. My point is that including PER in CX's quota of flights to AU disadvantages PER. Most of the traffic that is not on CX is shared between other Asian carriers and not QF or VA (except for a small number of cases where people will travel via eastern AU cities).
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Shoudy Chen:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
02 Jul 2011
Total posts 1374
Qantas has too many options on both the 787 and A380, both at good prices.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@moa999:
12 Dec 2012
Total posts 1031
QF has 8 A380 orders and 4 options remaining. They also have a large number of A320s (both normal and NEO) on order (currently meant for JQ/GK/3K/BL).
The original QF group 787 deal was for 110 aircraft in a mix of orders, options and rights.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Himeno:
12 Dec 2012
Total posts 1031
The original order, in 2004, was for 115 787s with 65 firm orders and the rest a mix of options (20) and rights (30).
In 2009, 15 firm orders were cancelled. In 2012 another 35 were cancelled, leaving 15 orders.
11 of those remaining orders were taken as 787-8s for JQ. Another 1 was cancelled and the remaining 3 converted to the first QF 787-9s with 5 of the options firmed, leaving the current book of 8 orders, 15 options and 30 rights.
Thus, of the original firm order, 11 have arrived for JQ, 1 arrived for QF, 51 have been cancelled and the last 2 arrive next month. Everything QF has now, without a new order (and likely different prices to the current book) are the original options and rights made in 2004.
20 May 2015
Total posts 579
Okay so after they order the very long range 787s (for US and Europe-ex-PER routes) they'll probably order about 30 787-9s to replace the A330s.
That seems reasonable to me. The outstanding options can be converted into NMAs (for Transcons and Asian services from Darwin, Perth, Adelaide), 777Xs, or NSAs/MAXes (to replace the 737s).
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@StudiodeKadent:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 Jun 2015
Total posts 57
they seem guaranteed to make around 15 more orders (be it 7879 or 10) during their next earnings call,
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@oruspicarous:
"they seem guaranteed to make around 15 more orders..."
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Apr 2013
Total posts 387
so your saying they will order more at the FY2018 results day August next year?
06 Feb 2014
Total posts 113
barely received their first one and now they have too many...this is where some vision comes in...think about how many US; Europe non stops could be in play...not to mention Asia...
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@maabbot:
03 May 2013
Total posts 684
great sardine cans for all their ultra long hauls....appealing-not.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Joe:
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1429
It will be around 45 all up. 25-30 to replace the A330s and 12-16 as long range versions.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
16 Apr 2014
Total posts 4
I hope that Qantas don't opt for the 78-10. With the -10 coming exclusively from South Carolina I wouldn't feel comfortable with the quality concerns that have been raised about that plant.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@LachlanSturt:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
16 Apr 2014
Total posts 4
Hi FLX1, thanks for some of the feedback in regards to the output and rework of some of the aircraft to accomodate customer concern.
14 Sep 2015
Total posts 8
Would be a great idea to get similar great pricing on the 797 as they got on the 787s by being a launch order. Timing looks like it would almost work, and if delays occur on the 797 program (as did with 787) they will get good "incentives" and/or be able to take some 787-10s in the interim.
24 Apr 2017
Total posts 79
Maybe Qantas thinks they are over spec'd for domestic flights, but their customers think they are under spec'd sardine cans for international flight.
Hi Guest, join in the discussion on Qantas almost certainly won't order all 45 Boeing 787s