Review: Qantas Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner premium economy seat
By David Flynn, October 24 2017
Qantas touts its Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner premium economy seat as 'revolutionary' and a world champion in the better-than-economy stakes.
There's much to like about Qantas' new premium economy seat, which sits in its own cabin of four rows with a 2-3-2 seating layout.
Sadly, a few issues – not all of them related to the seat itself – keep it from reaching its full crowd-pleasing potential.
First up is the legroom: or to be more precise, the lack of legroom when the seat in front of you is reclined.
We first raised this in our detailed preview of the seats published in February 2017, and last week's launch of the Qantas Boeing 787-9 and its subsequent delivery flight from Seattle to Sydney – during which we spent some hours sleeping in the premium economy seat – brings this into sharper focus.
The seat pitch – which approximates as an indicator of legroom, being a measure of the distance between your seat back and that of the seat in front of you, representing the room that's "yours" during the flight – is 38 inches.
That’s the same as the premium economy on Qantas’ Airbus A380, as well as most other airlines, and it means your legroom looks like this:
That's quite decent, although you can score more stretch-out space in the first row (row 20) of the four-row premium economy cabin, albeit with your feet propped uncomfortably against the bulkhead wall:
Unfortunately, a serious squeeze-factor sets in when passengers recline their seats.
A hint of this is already evident in this glossy PR photo (eyeball the proximity of the model's knees against the seatback) – and that's the recline of your own seat.
When the premium economy seat tilts back into a generous 9.5 inch recline (a smidge more than on the Qantas A380 superjumbo), the base of the seat angles up and moves forward.
Here's a shot of this in situ on the Boeing 787-9...
... and a clearer snap from the seat's launch earlier this year, which illustrates the difference once the seat reclines.
It's a very relaxing position to be in, but that comfort comes at a cost of reducing the knee-room at the very front of your seat.
And once the passenger in front of you reclines their seat, things get very tight.
Part of this is a function of the seat's deep recline – which is usually a good thing...
... and the solid shell which wraps around the seat, giving it more of a 'premium' feel.
Here's the side-on view with a front seat reclined:
Note the leg position of the passenger in the rear seat:
I'm in the shot below, and despite being bog-average in height you can still see how my legs are close to the rear of the seat without even the room to cross them. This won't make for a comfortable flight, especially not on the Dreamliner's 17+ hour non-stop trek between Perth and London.
This all comes back to pitch, to the distance between the seats.
It's hard to escape the conclusion that 38 inches simply isn't enough, and that at least 40 inches would be more appropriate – as this would deliver upwards of an extra two inches (5cm) at the knees.
So while Qantas' designer David Caon has delivered what is in most other respects a superb premium economy seat, the design has been short-changed by the implementation.
Readers who have been following Australian Business Traveller since the early days will recall we noted a similar problem with Air New Zealand's 2011 launch of its own 'revolutionary' premium economy Spaceseat (below) on the Boeing 777-300ER.
Responding to a wave of criticism, Air New Zealand quickly removed an entire row of seats from the premium economy cabin to deliver between four and six extra inches of legroom for each passenger. (The Kiwi carrier eventually ditched the radical Spaceseat design in favour of the more conventional seat flown on its own Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners.)
There is, however, another wrinkle in the design of Qantas' premium economy seats: the foot hammock upon which much of the airline's 'revolutionary' claim has been built.
This goes beyond a small section of netting at the bottom of the seat. It's a complete construct combining a supportive calf-rest and a cradle into which you can tuck your feet.
The original concept was developed by Thompson Aero Seating – the same firm behind the Boeing 787’s business class seat – and brought into the real world by David Caon.
Unlike the premium economy seat of the Qantas A380, and most other airlines, there’s no legrest built into the front of the Dreamliner's seat – Caon says this is because it “has a limited range of motion” and “in the end it doesn't fully support your feet."
His solution is this 're-imagined' legrest which works in tandem with the reclined seat with the aim of cradling your body from head to toe.
It works on hydraulics and can be set into a wide range of positions, typically to support your calves while your feet slide into their own hammock.
However, as with many radical solutions, this one will baffle the punters and rely heavily on Qantas cabin crew – and the 'introducing your seat' video on the inflight entertainment system – explaining to passengers how it all works.
First of all, the 'hammock' can be deployed only when your seat is upright – not reclined. And while most travellers will be sufficiently familiar with a seatback footrest to try and swing the calf-rest down with their feet, that struggle will get you nowhere – you need to start by pulling out and holding the 'Footrest' lever under the video screen.
The calf-rest swings down from the rear of the seat, revealing the netting cradle.
Then it's a matter of finding the preferred position for your calf-rest – some passengers will like it up high towards their knees, others further down the leg.
For all that, I didn't find this to be miraculously comfortable during my kip in premium economy.
Perhaps I didn't have it adjusted 'just right' (and if I can't, how is the average passenger going to handle it?), but I'd have been happy for a more conventional legrest-and-footrest combo.
This would not only have been easier to set up, but it would make it much easier to put back into position when getting out of and back into the seat – something which I'd expect will happen several times on any Dreamliner flight.
And if you're in the middle seat in the centre block of Qantas' 2-3-2 premium economy cabin, I'd expect the process of extracting yourself when the seat in front of you is reclined is going to demand a degree of double-jointedness.
In short, all this is going take a lot of getting used to, and I can see many passengers abandoning it altogether and making do with less comfort than they should enjoy in what is, in every other respect, an excellent premium economy seat.
Space to spare
The well-padded seat cushion is 19.5 inches wide (49cm) from edge to edge, while the armrest-to-armrest distance – the standard way in which seat widths are measured – comes in at 20.5 inches (52cm), which is one inch more than on the Qantas A380.
On top of that, there's extra cut-out space chiselled into the wide armrests:
Qantas counts those recesses as ‘storage areas’, although they'd best suited to small slim items such as a notepad, travel diary or maybe a compact tablet in a protective case.
Allowing for this extra space between the edge of the cushion and the inner wall of the armrests brings the total of what could be called ‘hip width’ to 22.8 inches (58cm).
Need a smidge more room?
The middle seat of each premium economy row (the ‘E’ seats: 20E, 21E, 22E and 23E) is actually a bit wider again, at 23.3 inches (59cm), while passengers on the aisle seats (A, D, F and J) can recover more space to spread by pushing down the aisle-side armrest.
The over-sized winged headrest has plenty of vertical adjustment to suit passengers of almost any height, and a thick custom pillow – more like a bolster in some ways – slides over the headrest for added comfort (especially when it's nap-time), an arrangement which also prevents the pillow from sliding around and slipping down behind your back.
The shroud of each seat contains a soft personal LED light.
Caon has added several other passenger-friendly touches.
Each seat has a 13.3 inch video screen...
... with those fitted to the armrests of the front-row seats showcasing how narrow today's video screens have become.
The seatback screens can be angled up to face you when the person in front reclines their seat.
Caon cannily built a convenient tablet-holder in front of the seatback screens, for passengers who prefer to BYO inflight video and movies, with sufficient size to hold even a 13-inch iPad Pro.
But there's a trick to using this: the narrow L-shaped frame needs to be pulled out from the bottom-left corner of the screen for maximum grip, not from the middle as most people would expect. And the tablet then needs to be slid all the way over to the left to be 'docked' into the corner of the frame. There's nothing to communicate either of these points to passengers.
Indeed, if you leave your tablet sitting in the middle of the frame – again, a natural assumption – the small grip area is insufficient to hold the tablet, which then does an Olympic-grade tumble dive into your hands.
Once the tablet is docked in position, hook it up to the nearby USB port and you're good to go...
... although with the low-power port supplying just 0.5A it will keep your tablet's battery stable than recharging it.
Just below the screen is a pocket for stowing your smartphone, reading glasses or other small bits of personal kit.
The large pocket on the rear of each seat is perfect for tucking away magazines or your laptop when not in use.
There’s a second USB jack the middle armrest of each seat, just above the headphone socket.
This is a high-powered 2A port pumping out plenty of juice to fully recharge your travel tech, while the location is ideal for charging up your smartphone, tablet or eBook reader while also using the device.
You can of course tuck your smartphone into the cubbyhole below the video screen and top up its batteries by using that 'upstairs' USB port – it'll just take longer to recharge, but on a long international flight that's ample time to fill up the tank.
Yet at odds with the double-dollop of USB ports is the single AC socket shared between each pair of seats – or two sockets for the middle set of three seats. This is a terrible oversight when you think about about laptop-toting travellers flying as long as 17 hours between Perth and London.
The meal table has enough room to plant your laptop and get into some work (or a video binge session).
If you're read this far into our exclusive review of Qantas' latest premium economy seat – which the airline also intends to fit to its flagship Airbus A380 fleet from mid-2019 – you'll know the take-out: we generally like the seat, apart from the calfrest+hammock combo and shared AC sockets, but we certainly don't like the lack of legroom forced upon it due to Qantas' tight-fit cabin configuration.
This premium economy seat – and Qantas' premium economy passengers on the Boeing 787-9 – deserve better.
Also read: AusBT reviews the Qantas Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner business class seat
David Flynn travelled on the Qantas Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner delivery flight from Seattle to Sydney as a guest of Qantas.
David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jan 2014
Total posts 319
Looks uncomfortable alright, that legroom is inadequate I struggle to think how they can call this premium economy, more like modified economy.
23 Feb 2015
Total posts 260
I get that more pitch would be awesome, but it is still six inches more than economy. Leaving aside the economics, I know where I would rather be.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
12 Jun 2011
Total posts 148
Having sat in the seat today at the open day in Melbourne and playing around with the recline (with both seat in infront and my seat reclined, I can honestly say I find it very comfortable and didn't have any issues with legroom at all. I'm about 180cm and had plenty of legroom.
25 Oct 2012
Total posts 11
Wouldn't be surprised if they remove a row of seats like Air NZ did, the foot rest looks weird and bafiling. That will probably need a rethink.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
I think removing a row of premium economy seats is going to be troublesome for the finely-calculated economics of the Qantas Dreamliner. Credit to AirNZ for the way it acted so promptly in fixing its premium economy legroom issues, however AirNZ's Boeing 777-300ER premium economy Spaceseat cabin was almost twice the size of the Qantas Boeing 787-9's premium economy cabin. I'm confident this will be revisited after many passengers make their feeling known (including lack of feeling in their legs after that 17 hour Perth-London trek), but at this stage of the game the fix might not be rolled out until the second wave of red-tailed Dreamliners from 2019-2010... hopefully at least the A380 refit will see more pitch in the premium economy cabibn.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1215
Whilst NZ did make the right decision by removing the row of its ironically named Spaceseat, it blew up its economics and doomed it to the scrapheap.
14 Apr 2014
Total posts 46
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Jan 2017
Total posts 39
Typical, qantas always behind the eight ball.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
15 Aug 2017
Total posts 116
Good article. I’m flying that on the inaugural QF9 mar24 and certainly confirms my initial thoughts of the publicity shots that it is tighter for legroom than I would expect. Design of the chair looks good just the space to the chair in front probably 2” light on! Still will be better than down back.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
14 Mar 2017
Total posts 152
Both Singapore and Virgin would appear to still have better seats...
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
20 Jan 2016
Total posts 59
Not an unexpected outcome from when this was first shown, a real shame as bringing this inline with VA and AirNZ at 41'' would I expect have made a great seat. Any indication that QF are aware of the situation? Or are they still believing this is revolutionary.
13 Sep 2016
Total posts 174
Thanks David for this detailed review, it doesn't pull any punches, is very 'considered' about identifying the problems and should make some commenters on the Qantas Boeing 787 Business Class review realise that AusBT remains independent and always ready to call a spade a spade.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
15 Aug 2012
Total posts 171
Well said Bob. I thought some
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
it's been a few years since I flew in Qantas' A380 premium economy, and only has a short stint in the 787 premium economy, but with the 787 experience fresh in my mind I'd have to say that all else being equal (eg same route and thus flight time) I'd go for the A380. The irony is that the Dreamliner has a much better premium economy seat but the implementation of that seat – in the pitch assigned to it – is where this falls down, IMHO.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
30 May 2014
Total posts 49
An interesting review! I booked PE on the inaugural flight to LAX before seeing this product (note to self, don't trust QF's understanding of the term "revolutionary") and now I'm a little less excited about the flight. It certainly looks tight in there!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
19 Jun 2017
Total posts 41
Could not agree more! What a fantastic and detailed review David. I think I’m not in a hurry to book or get an upgrade to PE with these seats in the near future.
27 Apr 2017
Total posts 39
Great article with lots of detail.
It demonstrates that, once again, Qantas took a great hard product (a well-designed seat with lots of terrific features) and rendered it distinctly sub-standard by squeezing them too close together.
Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
24 Feb 2016
Total posts 18
Spot on. Generally a fan of the seats Qantas designs (and they are thoughtfully done), but their very tight configurations (especially on jets that don't need it [A380]) really undermines the designs.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
31 Aug 2012
Total posts 212
Sorry QF, it's a big thumbs down! PER-LHR non-stop like this? Not a chance in the world.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1215
It will be interesting to see what pitch QF puts on the A380s when they refit them. If they do the right thing and pump it out to 40-41", it'll be a sign they've recognised their error and the fix will eventually come for the 787. If not, it'll be a poor signal as to how QF view their W class customers and what could've been a class-leading seat will remain just average.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Very astute observation, and I've been pondering the same thing – Qantas wants to use this same seat, which I consider a substantial improvement over the current one (apart from concerns over the hammock, but we'll need to see how those play out in reality once the 787 flights begin and there's a body of real-world feedback from thousands of passengers) but it deserves more pitch – so I'm hopeful with the amount of time to go for the A380 refit this can be addressed.
28 Aug 2014
Total posts 4
Very thorough and impartial article - great to see.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Andy: it's actually not too bad, naturally gets less so once the seat in front reclines... will be posting a photo gallery/review of the economy seats when we can, but might not be until next week...
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Jan 2012
Total posts 172
Great review and definitely what I thought about the leg room situation. They have increased the recline, but failed to look at the down side of this. What's funny is that we all make comments about how poorly executed this Premium Economy is......but then poor Economy Class is far worse for a 17+ Hr trip.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Mar 2012
Total posts 211
Pity that Qantas decided to go middle of the road in regard to the important issue of space... that could never be called revolutionary.
03 May 2013
Total posts 683
I have supported Qantas many years (and still do) but I will always call a spade a spade. Qantas PE and F classes are a total waste of money it seems. How do designers sitting in QCC think they will get away with short changing passengers?? removing lavs, mediocre food, using "enhancement" "revolutionary" "game breaking" ad nauseum making fools of us. They charge premium fares and give with one hand but take away with the other. I think its time for a new CEO and direction.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Joe:
Etihad - Etihad Guest
06 Apr 2012
Total posts 124
The new Qantas 787 premium economy product looks like more of a 'devolution' than 'revolution'. Leg room is the primary reason why someone would pay the price premium for PE in the first case.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@wdeguara:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Aug 2016
Total posts 64
David, in photo 16 (and shown in photo 17 with your writing notebook), does that side space have something at the bottom of the seat to ensure that whatever you put there, stays there (without slipping down into the bowels of the seat, necessitating a call to an FA)?
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Yes, happily this is not a bottomless pit.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
09 Aug 2016
Total posts 38
I think the fact it took such a long article to explain the mechanics of a Premium Economy seat, probably tells you everything you need to know about that product....
British Airways Executive Club Gold
25 Jun 2015
Total posts 20
Looks very underwhelming and quite tight. I value legroom more than seat width so I'd rather just stick to Y and pay for an exit row seat - it would be a lot cheaper as well!
03 May 2012
Total posts 120
I am a big fan of Qantas and was very much looking forward to the new PE. The design is wonderful, but at 6’5” tall, I think I will have to give it a miss. Quite disappointing.
qf
21 Jan 2014
Total posts 7
SQ premium economy also 38". Why the same complaints not extended here on this forum. QF bashing again. I have used SQ premium economy, while nice, compared with standard economy, I prefer the QF product. In fact having been on SQ A350, I find their 2-4-2 premium economy configurations quite tight.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
06 Sep 2012
Total posts 231
"Why the same complaints not extended here on this forum"
Because QF overhyped their Premium Economy as 'revolutionary' and streets ahead of everyone else, when it's not.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Jedinak K:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 464
While it is 38 inches which matches up with most competitors with only a few exceptions, the seat recline reduces legroom significantly. When reclined it could be the tightest PE on the market. Great idea for short people. Not for me.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@freedomflyer:
13 Sep 2016
Total posts 174
You have probably tried the current QF A380 premium economy product, this new one has effectively less legroom as explained and shown in the article.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Bob Burgess:
11 Dec 2015
Total posts 85
Part of the issue as noted in the article is that SQ premium doesn't recline as far.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Trogdor:
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Jul 2016
Total posts 105
Not to mention that this is an Australian traveller website, where we focus on our Airlines...
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Packetman21:
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
14 Mar 2017
Total posts 152
Probably because SQ's Premium does not have this issue of leg room when reclined. The A350 seat is narrower than the A380 seat though.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@xtferz:
19 Oct 2017
Total posts 4
How does the QF premium economy seat compare with the BA World Traveller Plus (B787-9) seat?
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Can 't say as I haven't flown in that BA product.
31 Aug 2017
Total posts 1
Hate to say it but even American Airlines offers inseat power in each economy seat on their 787's, well at least in main cabin extra. Correct me if I'm wrong. Qantas can't even "afford" to do that for their Premium Economy product? Penny pinching to say the least.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Oct 2013
Total posts 699
No it just hasn't been mentioned in the article. The entire aircraft has in seat power at every seat.
13 Sep 2016
Total posts 174
There is an excuse and even a reason if you bother to stop and think about it instead of firing off another anti-QF rant. Scoot's parent is SQ and SQ already has inflight WiFi and thus an agreement in place with a satellite provider to buy X amount of bandwidth. Scoot simply taps into this same agreement and the same service. Also, SQ is a 100% international airline for obvious reasons.
Qantas on the other hand is as much a domestic airline as an international one, perhaps even more so, and it's chosen to outfit its domestic fleet first, for obvious reasons that it will help QF stay ahead in the two-horse race against Virgin, while international is already a very broad field where WiFi won't add as much advantage, so QF's contracts for satellite provider are for Australian coverage (via the NBN satellite), it doesn't have any agreement with an international satellite provider.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Oct 2013
Total posts 699
I'm certainly not on an anti-QF rant, I just suggested that I'm surprised by the lack of WiFi.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
I'd suggest the reason that satellite tech isn't factory-fitted is that with the rollout of international inflight Internet still a few years away, the tech itself can and will change. Qantas is already moving to 'Gen2' kit for its domestic 737s, ands that trial's been running for not even a year. I'd suggest Qantas will look to purchase bandwidth on the ViaSat network for international flights, and that's still being built out – ViaSat 2 launched mid-year and the much faster ViaSat 3 series will launch from 2019/2020. So it makes little sense to pay for what could well be obsolete or just last-gen (or last-last gen) kit now, versus waiting until you're ready to go and can buy and retrofit the latest kit for maximum performance.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@henrus:
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1429
There seems to be a lot of grumbling in these responses but my read of it is that it is much the same as the A380 seat with a few improvements. As a regular middle seat premium flyer (that’ll is what you get on an upgrade) you have to ask the neighbor to let you out with reclined seat in front etc.So what is new. This is not business class!! but a much nicer seat to sleep in than economy. To quote Shakespeare ‘me thinketh thou complain too much’
13 Sep 2016
Total posts 174
It's a completely different seat to the A380s, and I don't think anybody is complaining too much at all. Premium Economy is supposed to be a lot better than economy, nobody here is asking for business class at PE prices, but adequate legroom is an essential part of the PE product offering and this seat or rather the pitch assigned to it by Qantas doesn't deliver.
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1429
Bob I presume spoken by one who was on the delivery flight! Otherwise how would you know!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 464
From an AUSBT comment on Facebook: “I actually think it's a *very* good seat, it's just let down by lack of legroom – the assigned pitch would have been fine for a conventional A380-style premium economy seat, but this seat simply needs more pitch”
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
PatrickK: Bon is correct, this is a different seat.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
07 Dec 2015
Total posts 55
Nup, not for me. I was prepared to change my stripes for my quarterly trips to NYC based on this product but I'll stay with VA/DL thanks. What a shame...
16 Feb 2016
Total posts 30
Hi David, Great article, just one quick question.. does the legroom stay as tight if you are reclined as well as the pax in front? Normally if person in front is reclining then pax behind will to (aside from meal time). As the seat goes into the lazy z does it not open back up that space? Do you have a pic of both seat in front and pax seat side one?
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
Still a tight fit, didn't get pics along the lines you suggested (due to limited time during the walk-through pre-delivery, and then the premium economy cabin being near-full of sleeping media on the overnight leg of the delivery flight itself).
23 Oct 2014
Total posts 238
Some facts just can’t be overlooked.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@DownSouth:
23 Oct 2014
Total posts 238
FLX sorry I’m not contradicting myself, “further reductions in recline” I was referring from the article when the seat in FRONT is RECLINED the seat behind space is further reduced due to the design, look at the pics and review above, it’s clear cut.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@DownSouth:
23 Oct 2014
Total posts 238
FLX, I understand, however looking back through the comments you have personally replied to approx 8 different people comments on this topic that appear to be negative, I find that “interesting” that someone would take the time to constantly reply to multiple posts on a topic. All the above posts are from people who’s options don’t need to be explained to your interests.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jun 2017
Total posts 39
Great review. Well done.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 464
Qantas could fix the PE legroom issue by removing one row of Y from the forward cabin and the distribute the 32inches across PE and the remaining rows of Y. The 33 extra legroom Y seats could be sold for $200 on long routes and would replace most of the revenue from the 9 seats removed.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 Feb 2017
Total posts 24
Wow. EPIC fail due to poor seat pitch... QANTAS need to correct this quickly.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
Excellent article: very considered, and terrific photos. David also looks extremely well dressed, with a tie, as male business travellers ought have except in tropical climates.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Aug 2012
Total posts 2199
I'd be inclined to agree. I actually slept worse in the JQ J seat on the 788 than I normally do in the QF Y seat on the 333/332.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
15 Aug 2012
Total posts 171
Funny you say that, I've flown PE on Qantas and Cathay and found I couldn't get my legs in a comfortable position which hindered sleep. I sleep better in economy with no leg rest.
24 Oct 2010
Total posts 2561
I find there are two big variables in sleeping on aircraft in premium cabins – one is, as you've noted, legrest or not; the other in business class is lie-flat or recline, sometimes I much prefer a deep recline with the legrest up to make the seat like a comfy lounge chair, rather than a fully-flat bed.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
15 Aug 2012
Total posts 171
I agree, I like more of the recline than fully flat in Business. And premium I just can't get as comfortable as economy which is ironic. I'm 6ft and the PE seat seems to impinge calves causing the discomfort. I'll keep an open mind and give it a go sometime.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@SteveCF:
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
15 Aug 2012
Total posts 171
But that's the point David and I were making, rather than setting the seat to flat we prefer setting it to a recliner position for sleep.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@SteveCF:
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
15 Aug 2012
Total posts 171
I think you're over thinking this, In business class I sleep better setting the seat to a recline position instead of fully flat, that's just me.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Feb 2017
Total posts 13
Is that storage area below the screen metal? Surely thats a safety issue if it is.
Its a shame about this product. Like others have said, people book premium economy for some extra space. Obviously not up to business, but enough to be comfortable, especially for the premium prices QF charge.
I hope QF looks at this issue and removes a row to create extra space. If this product is what we can expect to put up with for 17+hrs, the PER-LHR experiment will be a failure.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 Aug 2014
Total posts 72
No thanks Qantas,
Qantas
19 Apr 2012
Total posts 1429
Zaps I do it all the time (to DFW) and it is fine; better than economy which is the point.
04 May 2016
Total posts 34
I'm all for recline, but the implementation here looks dreadful - loss of leg room, and getting way more 'up close and personal' with the head of the person in front than I've seen before ! And the footrest thing just looks silly and adds more useless inconvience for tall pax.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1215
The added recline, whilst sounding initially attractive, actually becomes part of the problem. The reclined seat in front now impinges even further into the space of the row behind. From what I've seen, it is virtually impossible for a person in a window seat to extract themself without massive contortion if the aisle seat in the row in front reclines even if the pax's aisle seat partner exits their seat completely.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
20 Jan 2016
Total posts 59
The Air France PE suffers the same fate as the Air NZ Spaceseat. Fixed shell seats are great for protecting your personal space but they trade this off with a limited recline within the shell making it tough to sleep. The Air NZ space seats replacement are great for sleeping, and at 41'' they still have good personal space. But I have yet to see a PE seat that retains the sense of space and comfort.
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
06 Jul 2014
Total posts 22
Don’t forget aircraft fly with a nose-up attitude so a fully flat J bed puts your head lower than your legs. Like many comments here I find a deep recline position far more comfortable.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
David, there seems to be inconsistency in the website in that sometimes I can see comments on my browser (i.e. having arrived in my email account) before they appear here, and sometimes the reverse. For instance FLX1 seems to have made further comments - I can read them on my email - but they don't yet seem to be in the thread here.
09 Jan 2016
Total posts 43
Wow what a nightmare, and that's 'Premium' Economy (at a premium price). Imagine being in economy for 17 hours.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
15 Aug 2017
Total posts 116
David I see your comments about your feet touching the bulkhead if in row 20. Would this still be the preferable row in your opinion over the other 3 rows behind and no one reclining into you?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
06 Apr 2011
Total posts 106
PS Can't help but think FLX1 is a Qantas troll
31 Mar 2016
Total posts 619
@Agfox:
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
Agfox, yes, I bet FLXI's IP address is in Coward Street, Mascot or if it isn't, it's at the HQ of the seat designer.
20 May 2015
Total posts 579
So from what I see the problem is that the "shell" around the back of the seat takes up too much room when the seat reclines?
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 371
One other point: unless my memory is completely defective, SQ have never hyped their W class or whatever it calls premium economy in the way Qantas has, so if there's criticism of Qantas, in part (separate from poor or ineffectual design and pitch) due to using unwarranted hyperbole.
Cathay Pacific - Asia Miles
27 Nov 2012
Total posts 45
Great article David.
Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
05 Jul 2017
Total posts 5
Premium Economy sounds and looks terribly uncomfortable. Really interesting how another review l recently read, gave PE a glowing report - however that reviewer travelled as a guest of QF. I pay no attention to any review where the pax flew 'courtesy of'. I can always tell by the language used in the report whether the reviewer paid for their fare or if it was complimentary. Please keep it real. We're not fools.
24 Dec 2013
Total posts 3
Hmm. Ok, apart from the hammock thing it's no advance over something like the prev gen PE seating on EVA - Which at it's height had 40" pitch (reduced to 38 when they reconfigured the J cabin), same pivot-cradle style seat but executed better - with leg-rest, and seat dropped into it's own space when reclined, minimising the space encroachment on the passenger behind. Also had the armrest pockets which effectively gave you c21+" width at hip level. Absolutely best in class at the time. C'mon Qantas, you're a ULH carrier, get it right!
26 Oct 2017
Total posts 6
David, did you see if there is any kind of leg or footrest to the front row PE seats? Without a seat in front with footrest, do ones legs just dangle off the tilted seat if they don’t reach the bulkhead? Thanks 👍
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 Oct 2017
Total posts 97
Oooo that seat pitch looks like economy of a few decades ago. Sincerely hope the A380 refit doesn't go the same way. Not a big fan of the new Business seat either.
29 Oct 2016
Total posts 35
An excellent review from Mr Flynn, and nice to see an independent evaluation rather than a reproduction Qantas propaganda as per their earlier PR releases.
Imagine being on the window seat or middle of the middle seats behind a fully reclined seatback,and having to climb across one's neighbours to get to the isle to queue for the loo - and paying a premium price for the privelege, although while this may have needed a flight from Seattle to realise, in the literal sense of the word, it was obvious right from the start that young Mr Caon had got it wrong.
Together with the comments add to the impression that PE is a class too many in the small aircraft which is the B787, and that JAL has done it right in regard to the aircraft it has configured for flights to/from Australia. Young Mr Caon can't do a thing with it. Such a shame compared with the promise outlined to me by a friend who was an interior design engineer in the B787 project at Everett, as we checked out the fuselage mockup in 2007 during a visit there.
The economics of market competition plus high barriers to exit might mean that eventually they too will succumb unfortunately, rather than try a modest price increase.
So sad that the Dreamliner tag still applies but the concept which the term encapsulated when it was coined by Boeing in the early days has gone down the gurgler.
30 Oct 2017
Total posts 5
I recall having my knees actually 'jammed' could not move...with a Cathay flight by my fellow passenger in front ( obnoxious very short woman who's feet wouldn't have even been able to touch the back of her seat - in front of her) only to be told if the seat reclines they are quite within their right to fully recline it! No way will I risk that ever again..so disappointed to hear this on the Dreamliner...suppose I'm dreaming to think they could make seats for tall...& some for short ? Question....can I book two economy seats for myself!??
QF
04 Apr 2014
Total posts 209
I was able to try the premium economy seat yesterday. Unfortunately at 190cm I just don’t fit.
Qantas
19 Jun 2015
Total posts 18
Booked economy Per Mel on 787-9 and was able to book row 20, first row in economy but in fact its premium economy seating. These seats can only be selected by Gold and above FF's. Cabin manager said QF are giving premium customers a a chance to "check out the PE seats" whilst the 787 is doing the the PER-MEL-PER runs. Great seats, wide spacious cabin in 2 3 2 config. If you can book these seats ignore business.
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